Pappabear and I got out Sunday and got to shoot 30 rounds of the 178 gr ELDs in .308. We ran them directly against our 175gr SMK load both in MEN .308 brass with Varget and 210m primers.
The 178s have a weird ogive that forced me to use our gas gun seating die to get them seated deep enough to get good neck tension/contact. That caused some load compression.
Both bullets chrono’d about the same at 2549 fps out of a 20" bolt gun. I expected the 178s to shoot faster with the load compression, but it was not the case.
Dope on both bullets tracked similarly out to 1300 yards. I expected to see the 178 really out fly the 175 smk, but It wasn’t the case with this load.
We’re going to repeat with Lapua Brass next shoot.
We didn’t use a drag model, we used the BULLET DONT LIE model. But we had a very strange day. Big winds that must have pushed bullets everywhere. We had the greatest variations we had ever seen. More than just using MEN brass which has proven consistent in the past.
We had bullets drop 15 feet short, then 2 dance around or hit target at 1,000 yards. It was a crazy day, some days no conclusions can be made.
We sctached the day. The only thing astonishing, where the velocities were exactly the same for SMK’s and 178 ELD’s. It shouldn’t surprise as 175 vs 178, but still it often does not correlate.
Week2 with Laplau brass may provide interesting. We talked about bumping up our 308 load to squeak some increases velocity.
What twist in your rig? I have an older 1/12 barrel, played with a few loads. I’m getting the best results with Lapua brass, 44 grns of Varget and a Berger 168 Hybrid. running about 2750…8.8 mils and I’m on at 1000
PB, I’m curious to what you and Markm find with the Lapua brass also. I have about 400 of those 178gr ELDx pills sitting here to load up into federal brass. Was once fired FGMM brass is it’s what I have on hand. Using CCI primers and I have a 8lb jug of Varget sitting here. My APC comes back from KAC Thursday so I’ll be putting rounds through that, the 16" 308 Fix, and also a 20" Rem 700 to see what kind of results I get. I’ve been seeing really good results with the 200gr ELDx the last few weeks in my 300wm, so I’m hoping these 178s hand loads perform the same.
Both .308s are 12 twist. I wonder if I wasn’t jumping them way too far. I know my Remmy has a leade from hell… and I sat them pretty deep for initial testing.
The LMT MWS might love them. It loves the 168’s. I have no magic wand to make my 1/12 to 1/10, or I would. I still have 8,000 rounds to shoot the CL barrel out of FN SPR, so that might be a while. But we’ll try.
I will say that if you are using a deep throat 700, my experience with the 178 AMAX and BTHP is that these bullets want to be seated close to the lands. As in 2.900 - 2.925 after measuring with Hornady COAL tool. The bottom of my action is notched to feed this OAL and I’m running Alpha magazines. SMKs can be seated at 2.8, no problem jumping those a mile. But there’s the difference between tangent and secant ogive from what I’ve seen.
Pappabear ordered another LE Wilson seating die for these bullets. We shot some Sunday that were beyond AI mag length. I think we say a few examples of them out assing the 175 smk at 1000 and 1300, but we had so mamy equipment issues, it was painful… gas blocks coming loose, scopes acting up… It was a goat rope tournament.
We had an old lot and new lot of powder. 4064 I think. The old shot 100 I say one hundred feet per second faster. naturally we are out of the hot powder. We hope to end up around 2,500+ FPS if we can keep primers in.
Shot a ladder test today with my 16" Q the Fix rifle. Bartlein Barrel. With the 178gr ELD-X being .18 inches longer then the SMK 175 gr, I was assuming that I needed to start lower in charge then what the 175 smk’s take. Well… good thing I did. I was seeing pressure signs at 42.2gr or Varget. With 175gr SMK I usually start my ladder at 41.6 and work up. After 4 shots in I had flat primers and super hard bolt. So I worked back to 40.2 grains and shot it from there.
Federal Once Fired FGMM brass. CCI Large Rifle Primers. Trimmed case to 2.005. 2.800 COAL. Varget Powder. KAC QDC suppressor. Results:
40.2 2367
40.4 2368
40.6 2375
40.8 2373
41.0 2359 (and another to verify (2358)
41.2 2378
41.4 2397
41.6 2412
41.8 2423 (another to verify 2412)
42.0 2426 (another to verify 2421)
42.2 2446 OVER PRESSURE SIGNS
Factory 175gr FGMM out of this gun was at 2510 +/-
The first 4 rounds in the ladder test had an SD of 3.8 and ES of 8. Could have just stopped there. The 5th round was lower at 2359 followed by the 6th round right where the first 4 were at. I shot 41.0 gr again to verify and I was at 2358 (only 1 fps off the first 41 gr round) So I knew this was a good number. I also shot the 41.8 and 42.0 again as the first go around only showed a 3 fps difference. Even though I want the extra velocity, I think I am going to load up some rounds in the 40.6-7 range. I dont want to load anything up close to over pressure signs that may come back and bite me on a hot day. Saving some wear/tear, powder, and living with the lower FPS, I think will be better for this gun in the long run. If I want to move heavy pills 3k fps, Im picking up one of my 300 win mags or 300 wsm.
It seems little bit slow. My 16 LMT MWS runs the 168 Noslers in Men brass at 2517 fps, and the 178 ELD’s at 2465 in a gas gun. But brass can have huge impact. We have to load these short to fit in a KAC magazine.
I will say with 100% confidence , pick up a 300WM, life is good there. It is such a big step up in performance with these new ELD bullets. We saw a greater performance jump in the ELD’s with 300 vs our 308’s.
We ran the 300’s with ELD 220’s at 2871 with 74.5 H1K with RWS brass which is beefy, so the load was a little more spicy. The 225 with Norma ran slower at 2762 fps, neither suck for those big bullets.
Yes 300 win is my favorite. I do have a few. They are thumpers. I get the 200 gr pills moving 3020 fps or so. The ELDx is a touch faster then the accubond.
In the Hornady book I’m right at velocities published for the ELDX and thought it was just slow, as they use a 22 inch barrel as a baseline I believe, and I’m right at it with a 16 inch barrel. But according to the grains they publish, I’m right there. My APC shoots em faster then my father’s 20 inch Rem 700, and also faster then this barrel. I see right at 2600 +/- with Federal Gold Metal Match also in my 16 inch APC. With the QDC suppressor. Not sure why the SR25 slings them so fast. Here is the load data for the 178gr ELDx in the attachment. I think what’s hurting me is the OAL max at 2.800 in the Pmag… it’s taking up that case capacity with that longer bullet. It starts crunching powder in the 41 and change powder weights.
Not sure if this pic shows up below but Varget with 178gr ELDx the max is 42.4 gr at 2450 fps. This seems slow to me as a max with these pills. And what I believe is a 22 inch barrel baseline??
Man oh man, that short gas gun outrunning long bolt guns can make you scratch your head. Our last lot of Varget is slower than our new lot, which just sucked. We are going to have to bump our new 308 Varget load up. I know all load data published is conservative because such variations in lot to lot powder.
The 5th round was lower at 2359 followed by the 6th round right where the first 4 were at. I shot 41.0 gr again to verify and I was at 2358 (only 1 fps off the first 41 gr round) So I knew this was a good number. I also shot the 41.8 and 42.0 again as the first go around only showed a 3 fps difference. Even though I want the extra velocity, I think I am going to load up some rounds in the 40.6-7 range. I dont want to load anything up close to over pressure signs that may come back and bite me on a hot day. Saving some wear/tear, powder, and living with the lower FPS, I think will be better for this gun in the long run. If I want to move heavy pills 3k fps, Im picking up one of my 300 win mags or 300 wsm.