Last year I acquired a substantial amount of Black Hills GMX 70gr and Barnes VOR TX 70gr. After testing both rounds in a 16" 1 in 8 barrel and a couple 11.5" 1 in 7 barrels, I’m less than impressed with the accuracy I’ve been getting.
I suspect it has a lot to do with the length and hardness of the Hornady and Barnes copper bullets making them difficult to properly stabilize in slower twist or shorter barrels. I also wonder if the rifling is getting a sufficient purchase on the harder material. So I’m looking at building a 16" or 18" SPR type upper with a 1 in 7 twist barrel in an effort to sufficiently stabilize these things. I suppose I could be convinced to go to a 20", but I still want to be able to carry this rifle extensively, if need be, so weight is a consideration. And it will be suppressed which adds substantial length and weight way up front.
Some of the barrels I’ve been considering are the SPR barrels from WOA. And possibly a Black Hole Weaponry barrel if I can convince them to build me one with their newly developed “claw” rifling which is supposed to work well specifically on all copper bullets. I have one of their standard polygonal barrels in a 308 AR build, and I’m pleased with its performance, FWIW.
Any ideas, or experiences getting better accuracy with all copper bullets? Barrel recommendations? Will a 223 Wylde barrel be a hindrance to these 5.56 rounds?
I don’t know how much this applies to your situation, but the 20" WOA barrel I’ve been playing with is as accurate as I can hold it from a bipod. No personal experience with the BHW barrels. My only monolithic bullet experience is with Barnes 110gr in 300 BO, and they were remarkably easy to work with.
If it were me, I’d pull the homo bullets and sub some 69 RMRs. Then sell the copper things to someone else. (I get than not everyone had the tools to pull bullets)
I damned sure wouldn’t build a gun around that stuff.
True. There’s always that option. It might be that there’s no way to save these things. I do like the idea of them however, their terminal ballistics and barrier blindness. There’s also that I like finding answers to questions no one is asking…
I do want to solve this “problem”, but at the same time I don’t want to waste a bunch of time and money on a wild goose chase. Still, I don’t have a precision 223/5.56 so if I do end up building this upper, it’ll have it’s place regardless of whether I 86 this ammo or get it to work.
I would not take advice from markm. He has an opinion on everything and is quite often wrong. What are the barrel brands that you have tested the loads with, what accuracy were you getting, and what accuracy are you looking for?
If Blackstone arms has the ARP 16" 3r barrels mine has done great with the 70gr tsx. I also have a 11.5 and 16" Triarc trac barrels that are sub moa with tsx. If you intend to suppress it the Triarc is the way I would go.
My 16” is a 1:7 Wilson Combat fluted barrel. Easily. sub MOA ( five shot groups at 100yds) with anything from the 40gr varmint bullets, 62 and 70gr Barnes copper bullets, to the Barnes 85gr OTM BT. I think it is a Wylde chamber, but am not certain.
I have not used all copper bullets, but the rainier 16"ultramatch mod2 has been a great barrel and has a 1:7.5" twist rate. Right around 30oz with flutes.
I would not be inclined to buy a particular barrel to shoot a particular bullet like that unless I had several barrels full of them and they were given to me for free.
You should not be having to build a special rifle / carbine just to be able to get good hits on paper with a crap bullet.
Speaking for myself, even though I don’t always agree with @markm, I often do, and I certainly enjoy his opinions. And his no bullshit approach. He and @DG23 bring up an excellent point, IMO.
To answer your thoughtful question, my Wylde chambered 1 in 8 is a 16" PWS that can do MOAish with IMI 77gr, and shoots Slovakian m193 at ~2.5-3 MOA. With the Black Hills and Barnes it was shooting 4-5 MOA. The 11.5" barrels are both Sionics, and I wasn’t expecting a lot from them, but still got 4-5 MOA, whereas other stuff is approximately half that.
Thank you for that info. I looked and Triarc is backordered on the 16" barrels. I wonder if their unique rifling is making the difference with these copper bullets. What loading were your 70gr TSX?
Thanks for that. What loading were your Barnes 70 and 85gr? I ask because the ammo I have is all 5.56 and as the bullets are so long, and I wonder if it would have insufficient jump to the lands wiyth a Wylde vs a true 5.56 NATO chamber.
Thank you. I’ll check that one out too.
You bring up a very good point, as @markm did. I did end up with a few thousand rounds at sub 50¢ per, so I couldn’t pass them up. Certainly not a barrels full, but enough to satisfy my precision-ish AR shooting for a few years. I tend to go through a fair amount of m193 at a rapid ROF, but do enjoy going out to the 700 yard range a handful of times per year. Enough so, that I have been considering a more precision orientated upper (that will inevitably grow a lower, I know) for several years.
Not being able to satisfactorily shoot the ammo I bought doesn’t preclude me from using in my loadouts for my short barrels, but I’d still like to be able to shoot it more precisely when/if necessary. And this adds impetus to my desire for a SPR type upper. Which can still be used to shoot other ammo, so it’s not like I’m JUST building an upper/rifle around a particular bullet. As @SBRSarge pointed out, he were able to shoot several bullets accurately including all copper with his Wilson barrel. Ultimately, that’s exactly what I’m after.
I assembled a 16” Criterion barreled gun a few yrs back. It has been used at the Farm for predator control and shooting occasional Whitetail.
It shoots the Black Hills GMX 70gr quite well.
I’d be pleased with that. Those numbers are, from what I read, about as good as what one expect from this ammo. I’d be pleased with less than 1.5 MOA consistently. 4-5 MOA is just not right.
Barnes’ website specifies a 1:8 twist rate, so if your 1:8 barrel doesn’t gives acceptable results with them, it’s not due to the twist rate.
All barrels are individuals, so just because one barrel likes a particular ammo, is absolutely no indicator that one you buy will also.
Read some of the many other barrels requesting recommendations for SPR barrels, and it shouldn’t be too hard to come up with a short list to look for. If you find one from your short list in stock at a decent price, then buy it and hope it works out.
I’ve also never looked for a barrel to pair with a particular bullet.
I don’t roll my own so all of mine are factory loads. I’ve done the Barnes and Asym 70gr, and the 85 gr OTM BT is a 5.56 Barnes load.
I’ve found the Barnes loads to sometimes be a bit hotter than other loads with the same bullet, and the Barnes loads shoot every bit as tight. I ended up settling on either Barnes or Black Hills 62 tsx, both is 5.56 for general use. Both shoot MOA in my AR.
I get 2992 fps and moa with the Barnes 5.56 62 g loads out of the 16” Wilson barrel. I’ll take that any day! Out of the 10.5 Noveske I get 2638 fps.
Both barrels are suppressed. The 16” has a SIG 556 direct thread and the Noveske SBR has a SiCo Omega.
Point of comparison, unsuppressed the BHA 5.56 62 TSX is typically ~2900fps from 16" barrels. So your Barnes-loaded is +100fps with the suppressor boost.
It could be your individual barrels, or your suppressor, or probably the reason that ammo was a bargain.
I have an 1/8 that shoot a little brown tip well enough, but I’d pick 1/7 if that’s what I planned to shoot.
Just pick a good 1/7 barrel for a more precision/SPR type build. Nothing special needed to shoot brown tip, no need to go 20” or worry about chamber minutiae.