Why are they not very popular?
Ballistics gel testing I have seen shows them to be great penetrators.
WHo knows. I use 147gr Rangers as my carry ammo in all my 9mm pistols.
I recently came across these ballistic gel tests and the two 147 loads they tested all penetrated noticeably more than the usual 124 and 115 grain suspects.
I am a believer that shot placement is king and penetration is queen when it comes to handgun bullet terminal ballistics.
Be sure to pay close attention to the gel calibration numbers on the linked tests, as a lot of them are off…
147 gr remains the most popular load for those west coast agencies continuing to issue 9 mm as their standard duty ammo.
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Thanks for pointing out that some gel calibration numbers are off. It’s great to have a SME chiming in on these topics. I need to educate myself a little more on gel testing, since I couldn’t spot such inconsistencies.
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Are the gel tests with incorrect calibration off enough to invalidate their results?
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Do you agree with the general premise that the 147’s penetration is usually higher, and that such is a desirable trait?
Thanks again.
The few FBI agents who can’t qualify with a Glock 22 (.40) and are issued Glock 17 instead carry 147gr Speer Gold Dot, IIRC is also authorized for off duty carry if carrying a 9mm.
You don’t tend to see a lot of white box/yellow box 147 grain econo-box training loads, but I didn’t realize that 147 was unpopular for real-world applications.
When I carried a 9x19 mm, I always carried 147 Gold Dots. The velocity is still quite respectable, and more mass is always better, no?
Chief
For whatever reason I’ve always preferred the 124 grain loads in 9mm myself. At least for carry use. No real logical reason other than I’ve always thought of 9mm as “light and fast” and .45 as “slow and heavy”. So I use the 124 grain +P Gold Dots in the 9mm and the 230 grain Gold Dots in the .45s.
A-firm – now you’re speaking my language. 
Chief
147 grains just isn’t heavy enough to qualify for the “slow and heavy” theory…and it isn’t fast enough for the “light and fast” theory either…when I carried a 9mm it was loaded with 124 grain +P rounds. Just my humble opinion.
ive always been under the impression if i continue to carry my 9mms, i better stick with light +p+ loads. federal 124 gr hydrashoks
Even when pushed to 1150 feet per second, 147 grain bullets could not be relied on to expand.
Penetration they would have as they tend to act like FMJ.
Hot loaded 124 grain bullets are much more reliable expanders while still gaining that magic 13 inches of penetration.
onmilo,
Your comments above are not accurate; numerous large West Coast LE agencies with thousands of officers continue to successfully use 9mm 147 gr JHP’s because they have demonstrated good terminal performance in hundreds of officer involved shootings…
Bullet weight and velocity are not particularly important in determining the penetration depth and terminal performance characteristics–bullet design, construction, and robust expansion ability are the key parameters. For example, a Barnes XPB 105 gr JHP at 1400+ f/s penetrates to similar depths as a Ranger Talon 147 gr at 975 gr.
A properly designed 147 gr does not penetrate any more deeply than a properly designed 115 gr or 124 gr–for example, the 147 gr used by SDPD averaged 13.1" of penetration and expanded between 0.58 to 0.62" in the nearly 150 officer involved shootings analyzed in the San Diego PD study by Gene Wolberg.
Poorly constructed bullets are likely to fail to expand and will completely penetrate, be they 115, 124, or 147 gr at standard, +P, or +P+ velocities.
This onmilo guy’s batting 1000! First the “5 positions vs. 6” and now this.
Notwithstanding Doctor Roberts’s comments about many West Coast agencies (as well as quite a few others), the 147gr does tend to be looked down upon in many circles. It’s based on the reputation earned 10-20 years ago, when many 147gr 9mm bullet designs were inadequate to provide reliable expansion, and thus performed little better than FMJs. At the same time, lighter and faster 9x19mm loads were achieving the velocities necessary to make those older-style JHPs perform well.
So what you saw were three types of 9mm-carrying agencies:[ul][li] Agencies that used or switched to lighter, faster 9mm and had better results.
[/li][li] Agencies that used or switched to better-performing 147gr loads and had better results.
[/li][li] Agencies that wanted to stick with a heavy bullet, weren’t satisfied with the 9mm incarnation, and switched the .40 S&W or .45 Auto (or 10mm, for a while) guns.[/ul]
[/li]
Because so many agencies gave up on the 147gr in favor of another caliber, it has not had the opportunity to redeem itself despite the positive results that many agencies are now seeing with it.
(even knowing all of this, I’m still more confident in higher-velocity middle-weight 9x19mm ammo … as the saying goes, “A mind all logic is like a knife all blade” 
)
Thanks all for the education.
The more I think about it the more I think I am going to switch. Probably to 147 Gold Dots or Golden Sabers.
Copy that, thanks.
I carry 147 only. I believe some of the critisims have been from FMJ over penetration in some tests. I also feel that some of the newer rounds like HST show great expansion in tests and mitigate some of that concern.
I have fired 115 rounds on the range and frequently wont knock down steel targets even though I think we can all look around and find that ‘hot’ 115 or 125 rounds have more power. They lack the knock down of 147.
Right. A 147gr bullet will generally have more momentum than a high-velocity 115gr or 124gr out of a 9mm. Momentum is what knocks down steel plates.
FWIW, people aren’t steel plates. By that logic, you’d be better off throwing a baseball at an AK-wielding maniac than shooting him with a .45 …
Not accurate?
- OK Industry professional, name the agencies.
2.I won’t disagree with this point. - I didn’t say the bullet did penetrate any more than a 115-124 bullet design, I said they won’t reliably expand, a lot of 115 and 124 HP bullets don’t either.i.e. 115 Silvertips.
- I don’t disagree with this statement either.
5.Civilian shooters are not always capable of purchasing the exact loadings available to law enforcement.