I apologize if this topic has been covered, however I have searched and cannot find many answers. I have read the section about Handgun Ammo in the Terminal Ballistics section and found it to be quite informative.
When I asked Glock about the 9mm 127g +P+ ammo, they said they do not rate their guns to handle any ammo outside of the SAMMI or NATO pressure spec’s. Winchester states that their +P+ is not made to any SAMMI or NATO spec. Winchester also stated that they make tons of the +P+ for agency use.
Shooting this ammo seams risky to me, but I do understand that there are a lot of LE agencies that carry this round, and shoot it out of their guns on a limited basis (when the duty ammo needs to be replaced). I feel silly asking this with what I just stated, but am I risking anything shooting this through a Glock? Are we talking about more wear on the frame/springs; or risking a failure of the gun (ka-boom)?
Other ammo considered is 147g Ranger, 124+P Ranger or GD’s. I understand there is no magic bullet, but I don’t want to risk compromising safety/durability for a few f/s’s gained.
The Glock will handle the 127 grain +p+ just fine. Consider for a moment that the 9mm Glocks share the same frame and recoil springs as the .40 and 357 Sig Glocks, both of which are standing up to the recoil just fine.
Both the 127 grain +p+ and 147 grain in the Ranger T line are great rounds. FWIW, I carry the 127s in my Glock 19 off duty and the 147s in my Glock 34 on duty. I find the 147s to be easier to shoot quickly as they are softer shooting, and from the tests I’ve seen, terminal performance is similar with the 147s having an edge in penetration.
So yes, you can safely shoot the 127 gr +p+ to your delight in your Glock. Also take a look at the Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +p and 147 grain, as well as the Federal HST line. Any of the 3 are solid performers.
go with the 147 grain HSTs, Rangers/PDX1, or Gold Dots…
their performance is equivalent (with the 147s penetrating better for the most part, especially through more complicated mediums), and the 147s are easier on your gun and your wrists…plus you’ll probably find you’re quicker on followups with the non +p+ ammo…
Glocks function even better with hotter rounds. I have always carried the Ranger RA9TA 127+P+ and still do in my Glock 26 and 19.The other round I like is the Speer Gold Dot 124+P.
you can shoot as much +p and +P+ in your glock as you like, and still not wear the gun out in your lifetime.
+P yes.
+P+ maybe not. The problem with the +P+ classification, and why Glock categorically discourages the use of +P+ ammunition is because +P+ is outside classification.
The 127gr +P+ Talons you’re referring to are only a little higher pressure than standard +P ammunition and are therefore safe for use in most modern service 9mm handguns, but there also exists 9mm ammunition designed ONLY for submachineguns that is MUCH higher pressure and is absolutely not safe to fire in any handgun; these too will say +P+.
Basically, +P+ means Caveat Emptor: know what you’re shooting before you shoot it, or you may very well blow up your gun.
If you can find Federal HST 147gr rounds (P9HST2), then GET them. From all the reading I’ve done and demonstrations I’ve seen, they are probably the best thing going in 9mm self defense ammo. However it seems to be extremely difficult to come by, and consequently I have no idea where to find any. I opted instead to go with Winchester Ranger T-Series 147gr (RA9T), which is supposed to be another top tier loading, and for years many regarded as the best stuff out there. It is comparable to the HST round. Of course, I’m just another guy on the internet so…
However, all of the following pistol loads listed below have been personally tested and vetted by Dr. Roberts. THEY ARE NOT IN ORDER OF PERFORMANCE, SO ANY BULLET ON THE LIST IS CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE.
see here’s where a bunch of folks chime in who shouldn’t…
Glock made the G19 for a US agency, (for use in Europe), in 9x21…which is WAAAAY hotter than any 9x19 including "sub gun " ammo.
Back in the day, early 90’s…IPSC shooters reamed out many a 17L bbl, to 9x21 to make IPSC major. I myself shot one for a year , shooting in excess of 20K rds thru one. I was pushing a 147 gr at 1275fps to no ill effect.
With more modern powders you can still make IPSC major in a 9x19 platform , much easier than dicking around with the 9x21. Still a very hi pressured round in any event.
So I KNOW you won’t wear out a G17 or 19 shooting the Win or Federal 124 or 127 +P+ loads. EVEN if you could afford to shoot 20K rounds…
In my Gen 2 Glock 19 and Gen 2 Glock 17 I carry Winchester PDX1 147gr JHP Bonded standard pressure. In my Gen 4 Glock 17 I carry Winchester Ranger 127gr+P+.
Yes, a lot of agencies use 127gr+P+ and it is working fine for them. Be aware that some pistols handle recoil better than others. We’ve got several cases in the armory for officers that prefer to use it. Personally I prefer bonded bullets in 9mm. They retain their mass better when punching through barriers, and are the only bullet design to meet the FBI’s 12" penetration minimum through auto glass. Good examples are the Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger Bonded, or Federal Tactical Bonded. I also prefer 147gr loads as it allows for faster and more accurate follow up shots.
but the 147s recoil less then the 127 +p+, which makes for faster follow-up shots, at least for me.
Well, obviously a standard pressure or +P 147 will recoil less than a 127 +P+, but that’s apples and oranges. A 147 +P will usually recoil a tad more stiffly than a 124 +P so on the objective scale, 147 isn’t the least recoiling choice (although I’ll concede the differences are so small I think it’s fairly academic. It’s been my experience that the powder the manufacturer chooses makes a much bigger difference than bullet weight anyway).
As for accuracy, a 147gr bullet can be more accurate in some guns, but saying 147s are more accurate across the board is erroneous.
My old IPSC load was a 147gr ZERO brand JHP loaded to +P++ chamber pressure levels using Vihtavuori N320 but it was sub 900fps and felt like .22 Magnum. It really has a lot to do with how the powder burns. I also had to use a Lee undersize sizing die to avoid bullet set back which would have grenade the gun. I used Wolff 15lb recoil spring and a KKM match barrel in a Glock 34.