Ever wonder why those short barreled pistol grip only shotguns are legal? It’s because they cannot be classified as either a shotgun or a pistol. Why you ask? Well, because by federal law a shotgun is a weapon designed to be fired from the shoulder, and a pistol is a concealable weapon, that means it has to be less than 26 inches, maybe it’s 26" inches or less, i’m not sure exactly but some of you are following me. WHAT IF??? Say i order the RAS12 12 gauge upper (btw, theyre cheap) or rhino arms 12 gauge upper once it comes out, slap it on my 308 pistol lower, and saw the barrel off until the overall length is just a touch over 26 inches. I challenge you to tell me if this would be legal (i’m 99% sure it would be) or WHY it would be illegal? Pipe up guys… Is this the start of a revolution?
I would try the NFA section of the forum as they would be much more experienced with these types of laws than the generic alternate caliber/chambering section.
I assume its legal, but I am sure your average gun owner and LEO would say otherwise (assuming you are being challenged to show a stamp).
I watched a Guns & Ammo TV show with a new “Firearm” that was a shotgun/pistol and non-NFA (and non-AOW).
Found it:
http://www.blackacestactical.com/#!product/prd3/3250932101/black-aces-tactical-dt
http://www.blackacestactical.com/#!product/prd3/4218448011/black-aces-tactical-dtr
Same goes for AR-15 pistols with >26" length. Per the “Firearm” designation you can run a vertical grip on it and its not an SBR.
Pretty much what the op said.
I havent found it yet, but 26" seems to be the magic number for concealability purposes.
So, as long as the gun is 26" or over, a pg only shotgun is not an aow. Barrel length is irrelevant. There is a company making a slightly longer birds head grip that allows a 14" barrelled gun to still be 26"+, and its legal.
The ar pistol that is 26"+ with the vfg is still considered an aow if being carried concealed, so it is reasonable to believe the pg shotgun would be treated the same.
Its being kept pretty hushed, but last year, someone figured out that these guns are actually destructive devices. Anything with over a 1/2" bore is a dd, but shotguns are specifically exempted. Since these are not shotguns, but firearms, they dont fall under that exemption.
Seems some guys from congress, atf, and nra made some deal that will change the sporting purposes clause, give nra credit for “saving us”, and let atf off for allowing unregistered dds to be sold for quite a few decades now.
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Well that DD thing would be true but it exempts shotguns and it also states any weapon that fires a shotgun shell that’s suitable for sporting purposes. Last time I looked 12 gauge is 
so to clarify, shotgun shells themselves are exempt if they are suitable for sporting purposes.
Uhhhh, no.
Technically, if it was manufactured with a stock it is a “shotgun”, if it was manufactured with a pistol grip, it is a “Title I firearm”.
Otherwise, if it is not a “shotgun” and it is not a “pistol”, then it falls under the “any other weapon” category.
26 U.S.C. § 5845(E)
For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Any Other Weapon” means:
•Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive;
•A pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell;
•Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading; and•Any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.
Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
And, is subject to the limitations described under ‘any other weapons’.
So, you legally can’t take a stock shotgun from Walmart, pull off the stock, slap on a pistol grip and chop it down…
EDIT: So, Johnny Law will probably (at a minimum) confiscate the “firearm” until he figures out if it originally was sold with a pistol grip, after you and your lawyer have fully explained the finer points of this law…
Read through this to the very end. It is written very well since it hits all the topics one at a time. The last paragraph is most important.
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf
Seems legit.
It doesn’t qualify as any other weapon because it’s over 26" in length and therefore not easily concealed. The only exception to this is it would magically become an aow if I concealed it… Which would be difficult and I’m not going to attempt it. This weapon is purely for home defense… And fun! thanks for all the input guys, I’m going to proceed with the build, I’ll post pics when it’s finished.
Franklin Armory had been fighting BATF and California DOJ to fill in and define gray areas.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Much peace
Jimmy
Just remember, it has to start life (ie the original manufactured configuration) with a pistol grip…
(And a prudent man might send a letter it the ATF to see if their ideas in what is what have not changed…)
How about we just leave the situation alone? Whenever the atf gets involved everything goes to crap and our rights are taken away. Also they take our toys 
I like the idea of an undefinable, and therefore unregulated category of firearms. Let the states decide what their citizens get to arm themselves with.
I’m just gonna use a good ole PSA pa10 pistol lower. No stock, just a pistol grip and a sig brace. If the black aces tactical shotgun is approved by the atf there’s no reason mine shouldn’t be. Good idea to check first though…
Just remember, if you write a letter to atf, they must answer it.
However, they are not required to give the answer you want.
Yes, the pg equipped shotgun shell firing “firearms” are classified that way because they left the factory that way. If it left the factory with a stock, its a shotgun.
The only way to determine which it is is to contact the factory to see how it was shipped.
Thus, a shotgun with stock, that has the stock removed, a pg installed, cannot be registered as an aow, but is a sbs, because it was originally a shotgun, not a firearm. This is also why pg shotguns are only sold to in state residents, as opposed to anyone. Even if both a stock and pg are in the box, what matters is what was installled when it left the factory.
Firing a shotgun shell has absolutely nothing to do with how a particular firearm is defined. Read the definitions in the nfa handbook. All firearm types are defined with firing fixed ammunition discharging either single or multiple projectiles. Rifles, as well as handguns, are defined as having rifled bores. Shotguns are defined as having smooth bores. Destructive devices are not defined as having rifled or smooth bores. Shotguns are exempted from the destructive device category. Handguns are defined as having rifled bores.
“firearm” is kind of a catchall category like “aow” is the nfa version of the catchall category. Everything that does not fit anywhere else fits into these.
If you really want to delve into this area, you should visit the atf website and download the latest version of the nfa handbook. It was never printed, only put on the site as a pdf file. If you read the definitions of every type of firearm, and nfa definitions, all becomes clear. You can also get a good idea of the answer to most any letter you might write, as this is what they will reference first.
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