1180fps from a 147gr 9mm

At least, that is what federal is claiming from the “XM9HA” round, which uses the 147gr HST projectile. Oh, it’s not a +P round either, not according to the packaging.

[b]What is XM9HA ?
What are the specs and what bullet is used in it?

Response from Federal Ask the Expert 1/7/10,[/b]

[i]Greetings,

The XM9HA is a product overrun from a government contract it is loaded
with our 147gr HST bullet with velocity at 1180FPS and 479 ft lbs of
energy.

Thank you[/i]

My guess is that this ammo was intended for submachine gun use. There are a number of European 9mm SMG loadings that are basically ++P++ in power level. SMG 9mm ammo is not designed to be used in handguns and it can be dangerous. Some guns have exploded after the first shot, and some have gone through a couple of thousand rounds of it. There are some Russian pistols that are designed for such high powered 9mm ammo, but they are marked accordingly. This 147gr ammo is a little more tame and would probably be okay, but performance wise it might have too much hydraulic force on the hollow point and break off the petals causing actually less wounding volume and over penetration. Regular HSTs already open up the hollow point enough to make the petals perpendicular to the bullet trunk…additional velocity will only fold them back more to either lay them flat up against the bullet trunk or break them off. The advantage of this load would be deeper penetration and better barrier penetration, but probably not better terminal effects.

On Glock Talk there are photos of it fired into phone-books and it didn’t appear to have sheared petals. As to the pressure, it is using 3n38 powder, which according to Vihtouri is capable of driving a 147gr 9mm to 1200fps using 6.9gr. Published load. Based on what I have read, the information is accurate according to those who have chronographed it.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74053&hl=3n38

It’s definately an interesting loading. It would be good for hunting or game protection if you choose to carry 9mm.

Negatives to the loading would be muzzle flash, blast, and recoil which will effect your combat performance. For me, the fastest I’d go with 147gr would be Federal’s HST 147gr+P at 1050fps. It already penetrates an average of 15" with reliable expansion with good barrier penetration. It even penetrates steel as well as 9mm NATO as I’ve done with 1/8" sheets.

My interest in it is more academic than anything. My 357SIG will push a 147gr bullet plenty fast enough for me. I just thought it really interesting.

A few questions on this load then. Sincethe Speer Gold Dot is also a bonded core bullet that performs pretty close to the HST, would the 147 Gold Dot also be suitable? I see on all the load datas available at loaddata.com that 124s max out at about 1240 or so. It appears to me this is more due to bullet limitations than to velocity limits, yes? As for the 147, is the cavity deeper or is the base just longer? Also, is the 147 designed to open at lower velocities that would make its usefulness at 1200 fps limited?

I have some 3N38 that I use for my 5.7, I may have to get some Gold Dot 147s and shoot the Perma-Gel to get an idea how the bullet may behave at those velocities.

While the Speer Gold Dot is a bonded bullet, the HST is NOT a bonded projectile; the Federal bonded handgun loads are labeled “Tactical Bonded” (LE9T1, LE9T5, LE357ST4, LE40T1, LE40T2, LE40T3, LE45T1).

Perma-gel is not the ideal media for testing projectile terminal performance nuances.

aha, ok I did not realize that. Thank you Sir.

ETA: I know Perma-Gel is not ideal, but for what I can do at home and for what I am getting from it, its better than water or wet phone books :wink: When I got the Perma-Gel, I knew its limitations and I got it for what it was. Believe me, if I had the resources available to do proper gelatine, I would heheheh

Whats a good source for this ammo?

Here is the link that was on another forum,

https://surplusammo.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=635&zenid=6775f713ae0065be0df26765f44ff608

Some talk on GT about this ammo having failures to fire.

I just want to add that this load should have about 25% more recoil impulse than SAAMI normal 9 mm loads, and 15% more than +P loads. Even if the pressure is within SAAMI +P, NATO or CIP standards (all pretty close, and the 9x19 case takes it well), the added recoil impulse will generate higher slide velocities and may bring durability or reliability problems with extended use.

DocGKR, have you tested this load?

TIA

No we have not.

I posted in the thread you linked. Here is my response:

"It would indeed be an awesome load - for shooting bowling pins. Expect stout recoil.

If it hits 1200, that would be a 176 Power Factor. And there it is, right on line for everyone to see: - a published 9mm Major load. Must be safe, if its published in this litigious age.

I don’t doubt that your Glock 34’s longer barrel will produce that velocity. I’d use the heaviest recoil spring available. BTW, I have shot Major 124s from a stock Glock 17. The Glock can take it. "

As for this new factory loading, I agree that it is best to use it in a modern gun of STRONG design/materials. Such guns, from my personal experience, include:

-Glocks

-Steyr M9 & varients

-custom 2011s with supported chamber / ramped barrels

-75s including Sprinigfield P9, Jericho 941, Tanfoglio, CZ, etc.

I would NOT use such ammo in a Beretta, however. The design of the Beretta is too weak for this ammo & the locking block will soon crack.

The Gold Dot is NOT a “bonded” bullet in the traditional sense. It is an ELECTROPLATED bullet. Review the Speer reloading manual around p.90 for photos of the production process for Gold Dot bullets. They start life as swaged lead cores which are then electroplated & finally shaped into JHPs - which, as you know, are good performers as defensive JHPs.

But do not buy into Speer’s marketing hype about “the jacket is bonded to the core one molecule at a time.”

“One molecule at a time” is just misleading double-talk for ELECTROPLATED.

All Federal “bonded” bullets use traditional pre-formed jackets to which a lead core is actually “bonded.”

TY44934, a traditional jacket that is bonded to the core may provide more design variables (variable thickness, etc.), but regarding “bonding” there is nothing better than electroplating, this makes sure the core does not separate from the jacket.

And if the gold dot line performs well, why bother with technicalities or marketing hype?

There are many pistols than may take the aditional pounding of a 175 PF well …for a certain number of rounds. Probably you would have to replace recoil springs for stronger ones, change mag springs oftern, check for slide stop cracks, etc., and the modifications needed to extend the pistol life would render it finicky for normal loads.

The best candidates would be the pistols with lots of slide+barrel mass to keep the slide velocity down, like a 1911. The CZ 75 breaks the slide stop often even with normal 9 mm ammo, and does not have a lot of slide+barrel mass.

“Traditionally” bonded or not, the gold dot is IN FACT bonded, and the process they use is a superior method of getting a lead core and a jacket to stick together.

I’ve seen the difference between regular jacketed bullets and plated ones when we did some range plate clean off. the plated jacket wont come off that bullet unless you melt the lead away. It’s REALLY stuck on there good!! the jacketed stuff however, usually separates when they hit.

How about in the XDM 9?

You sure about that?

I’ve seen postings about this round on multiple forums. Given the known excellent performance of the HST or Ranger T I have to wonder exactly what benefits this brings to the table. And how those benefits balance against the problems created.