I think I’ve finally made up my mind and decided to go with a Glock. The only question now is what caliber. I’ve narrowed it down between a .40 22 or a 20 10mm. Besides the ammo issue, what does anyone suggest??? I can’t find anyone around here with a 10mm to let me shoot it. Is the recoil that overpowering that it is unmanageable for double taps in self defense situations?? What about a compensated model??
Thanks for any info you can provide.
Don’t tempt me, Frodo…
I’ve been hung up on 10mm jokes lately, so I’ll put my big boy pants on, and not break one out.
Go with the .40.
I used to be infected with the Dirty Harry syndrome of a big handcannon is a good thing to have…until I bought a .480 Ruger Super Redhawk. A year later, I traded it for a 9mm.
Get something that you can shoot, afford to buy ammo for and learn to shoot it well.
Ditto. My “carry weapon” for 3 years was a Taurus Raging Bull in .44 mag.
:rolleyes:
Sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know…
If I were going to buy a Glock tomorrow, I would probably get the 10mm. (only because I own multiple .45s, 9mms, etc and I don’t own a 10mm). The recoil on the 10mm I hear is a little much to have good follow-up shots in rapid fire. Ballistically, they are superior to 40 S&W, but at the expense of increased recoil.
Honestly, I would a lot rather have a handgun I was comfortable shooting and could shoot well under stress than one that is uncontrollable in rapid fire.
If I were going with a 10mm, I would get the Glock model 20C. The compensator might make it more controllable under rapid fire.
On the contrary, the 40 S&W and 9mm are far more widely used by law enforcement agencies across the country, which speaks volumes. Plus, the ammo is more common for 40 S&W and 9mm.
The 10mm passes the point of diminishing returns. The extra muzzle energy and momentium just causes more recoil and slower shot to shot times. You are better off with a 9mm, 40sw, or 45 acp.I carried a Glock 20 for a year as a duty side arm. Not a bad gun. But it was difficult to shoot with full house loads compared to other guns. Slow fire accuracy is easy but try doing controlled pairs, failure drills and shooting on the move and one handed shooting. All this becomes more difficult as the recoil increases. You don’t gain much if anything in terminal performance over a good 40sw load.
Pat
keep in mind with compensated models, you get the flash up and in your eyes and they’re louder. Also, most 10mm you’d buy to shoot is WAYYY under loaded. Hand-loading or expensive buffalo bore-type ammo gets it back to it’s potential. Shooting 10mikemike through the 610 is fun stuff though when loaded right. In all honesty though, a good .45 230 gr +p hst puts a big ass hole in something and especially if you were going to get a shorter barrell, the 45 may have more to offer. as others said though, get what you shoot accurrate and fast and factor in price of practice time at the range. more than what you’re shooting with, where you place those shots is the big key. Is this your first handgun or do you have some and are just looking for another to join the family? xdm-40 with 17 rnds may be a possible good choice too if you haven’t considered it for something with lots of punch in a solid package.
I really enjoy the 10mm, but I am just a sport shooter. I don’t carry a gun for work or for defense, because I live in Canada and I don’t work in the wilderness, which would be required for a carry permit here.
I would definitely agree that shot to shot times are slower and I find that things like “hammers” are really, really hard for me.
However, if you have big heavy hands (I do, after spending a decade in construction work) it’s more controllable than you might expect.
I find the recoil is hefty but not snappy or unpleasant. I believe I shoot it about as fast as a .40 Glock, although I guess the real test would be to put a .40 barrel in it and see if my times improve.
But I have not noticed a big improvement in my times going to a borrowed G22. I definitely shoot quicker with a G17. But I enjoy the G20 so much that’s what I shoot.
I have to add though that I shoot exclusively my own handloads, which are fairly hot. Considering that I shoot with a lot of IPSC guys, although many of them are also LEOs and often shooting duty guns, I think the slight edge they have on me is less significant than I might initially assume.
Let’s consider the guys who are about at my skill level - an intermediate shooter with a fairly decent training record. They shoot the FAST drill around 1.5 seconds faster than I do…however they’re also using cat sneeze IPSC 9mm loads. Well, I don’t use IPSC 10mm loads, I use pretty hot loads, because my interest is not really in gaming, and I like to use my defensive loads as practise ammo as well, or at least something very similar.
Shooting with +P defensive 9mm, would they be 1.5 seconds faster? No, I don’t think so. I think they would be more like .5 seconds faster.
So there is definitely an advantage to be gained…but I think that once you switch to the +P defensive ammo, some percentage of that advantage is negated. This won’t show up in training environments all that often because most people don’t bring hot defensive ammo to training. But it would definitely show up in any situation where you ARE using hot defensive ammo.
Anyway as I say, I’m a construction worker, not a soldier or a police officer. I shoot for fun and to hone my skills for the extremely unlikely event I’ll be near my legally stored in a safe pistol when someone decides to rob me. So obviously there are much more experienced people here and much more highly trained people here, and the fact that none of them shoot 10mm is not lost on me.
But I do like the mighty 10. At the very least, I never find myself wondering, “but could it punch through the windshield, THEN do that?”
On the other hand, I don’t know how often the average defensive shooting is conducted through a windshield. It’s mainly Dirty Harry factor, I guess. For sure, people don’t necessarily stop moving unless they have no choice, and that seems to boil down to a couple of key situations: 1) not enough blood to keep going; 2) not able to tell the muscles what to do, because the either the decision maker is gone, or the path from the CPU to the engine has been cut off. I don’t encounter gun fights in my line of work, but I do see people get severely injured or killed on the job once in a while, and I’m pretty convinced that the standard take on what causes someone to stop being a threat is correct. And as long as your bullets will make it to the critical components, I don’t think much else matters.
But then again…there is no doubt in my mind that a 9mm is all you need for a regular guy, face front, in normal clothes. But what about a big, tall, fat guy from a funny angle? I don’t know. The questions I can really answer involve driving giant steel pilings into the riverbed off a huge barge, or how a 6 lane highway is going to go here after we finish blasting everything to bits.
I just make the best decisions I can on the basis of the information available to me, and between my semi-rational concerns about penetration under lousy circumstances, my completely rational assessment of shot times, and my 100% irrational love of big boom sticks, I went with the 10mm.
But I am not an expert, just an enthusiastic amateur.
I prefer 10mm in steel guns. I don’t think the plastic ones handle the cartridge as well as a steel pistol in my experience. If you want different one like this should work.
Colt released a new DE and they are actually nicely built 1911’s
oooohhhhh d90, that’s one purrrdddyyy pistol there. i’m jealous for sure.
I have a Glock 29SF, and wouldn’t go back. Shooting it isn"t much different than a .40 or .45. Although I haven’t tried Doubletap, Buffalo Boar, etc. I have primarily been using Hornady XTP ammo at about $15/box. But, also used PPU, CCI, and American Eagle. All flawless. The good thing is you have 10mm power available, and with a simple barrel swap you could have .40 or .357sig as options. I have a $115 Lone Wolf .40 conversion barrel, and it has been flawless with both Glock 20 and 29 magazines.
I’ve shot the 29 and 20 back to back. only about 75 rounds total.
I think it makes a decent woods gun it’s not a 44 mag, but if you’re comfortable with a 357 for your local critters this should work too. Kick is about double a 9mm. the 29 is a lot easier to control than you’d think. Overall a fun, pleasant shooting gun.
that said, my daily carry is a 9mm. (g19 or p7) capacity/size, control, speed, and cheap practice make the 9 the forum favorite as a carry round.
I was a 10mm shooter for a little while and eventually went away from it only because I had a 1911 10mm and decided to distance myself from 1911’s. I would love to fall into a nice glock 20sf though as I still have a bit of a thing for 10mm.
IMHO for a capable shooter the 10mm is slower but only by a bit. My bill drills ran about .02-.04 slower splits compared to a .45. The biggest issue was fatigue after 200rds and the “tennis elbow”. I was a DoubleTap shooter so I only fed it the good stuff.
The other issue I noticed was the because of the stouter recoil I(sample of one) could noticeably change the vertical impact of the bullet based entirealy on my grip pressure. This was an issue with improvised positions.
Ok…
The 10mm hate is going to build up, I can already tell. The big question that nobody seems to have asked yet is what do you want to use it for. Do you live in the country or spend time in the woods? If the answer is no, then I would recommend the 9/40/45. If the answer is yes, the 10mm might be for you.
The 10mm provides the velocity needed to penetrate deep enough for animals whose skin is much thicker than ours. However you must use proper ammunition (Double tap 230gr hardcast for example). In order to shoot lead (e.g. hardcast) ammunition you will need an aftermarket barrel btw (Lone wolf makes a reasonable 6" hunting barrel). In addition, if you do use it for this purpose, I would recommend stock-length getting a .40 caliber conversion barrel as well so that you can shoot .40 out of it for training and two-legged predators. You can convert a 10mm to .40 but NOT vise versa.
Some things to think about…
thats’ kinda interesting, so basically the gun started to move in your hand before the bullet left the barrel? Makes sense, and i guess it would be more dramatic with a higher recoiling caliber.
that is one thing you come to appreciate about nine if you do any gun games or anything where you have to shoot around a barrier in less than ideal positions, lot easier to to control.
Just to ask, but how did you arrive at .40 or 10mm? Have you held a G20 or G21 frame and compared it to a G22 frame? The difference in size and handling is significant. Some people I know really like the larger framed Glocks, and others think they are bricks and find they aren’t a good fit. Shootability is important.
You mentioned self defense - do you plan to conceal this pistol? The .40 will be easier to conceal.
Have you considered Glock generational issues? The new GEN4 G22 is probably the Glock in the lineup with the most to benefit from the GEN4 improvements and recently won a substantial ATF contract. On the other hand, the GEN4 9mm has had some teething issues.
As far as recoil, you can get 10mm loads that mimic .40 ballistics, but then why use the 10mm at all?
Last, I’ve attended a class or two where I’ve shot over 1000 rounds in two days. In 10mm, that is going to get expensive. And, depending on the ammo choice, punishing. Again, it comes back to what you’re planning to use this for and why.
Hornady 180gr XTP@15 Yards this past Saturday.
The only painful thing was the corners on the mag release during recoil on the meaty part of my support hand below my thumb. Had to wear a glove. I got a Larry Mag Catch on order for it so I am going to fix that ASAP.
It was more controlable than I imagined it would be.
A glock 10mm is not hard to control at all.
More information is needed how where your hits. Also the further out you go the more recoil will affect your speed. On close in drills my open gun with no recoil is not that much faster than my 45 acp. But stretch the range out and the difference in shot to shot time goes up exponentially.
Pat