I’m shooting a 10.3" MK18 style rifle.
Currently I’ve shot xm193 and MFS 55gr .223
I’ve actually had alot of luck with the MFS for plinking, (100% out of my DD, and fairly accurate ~5-6" groups standing w/ 3 MOA dot) but I’m considering that it is lacking in a defense round!
I’ve read all over that the xm193 isn’t ideal for 10.3" rifles because the velocity is not high enough to cause the bullet to fragment- a major advantage of the round
So, since I’ll unlikey get fragmentation, should I seek a heavier bullet? I need something that I can buy in bulk for $400/1000 of so.
I’m thinking m855 or PMC Xtac 62 gr. ammo, but before I pulled the trigger on that, I wanted to see if there were other options for a better price?
Is there a surplus ammo that is heavier than 62 gr that would suit my purposes?
I don’t think what you’re looking for exists… Surplus defensive ammo that’s effective through a 10.3" at $0.40 / rd. There’s a whole thread on good defensive ammo… Just read that and check prices.
Buy good ammo, practice with it occasionally, but get fundamentals down with cheaper ammo.
why do you need a rifle capable of throwing 30 rounds down range in 5 seconds? (kind of dumb to question “need” on any gun forum anywhere, dontcha think?)
Maybe I should have reworded the “defense ammo”…
Right now Ive been shooting a bunch of the MFS .223 ammo. great for staying on my game, but not I wouldn’t imagine it’s the worlds ballistically sound ammo. but it’s been great for plinking!
When I say 1K rounds of “defense ammo”, I’m not talking about hornady tap, or Barnes ammo. I just mean a “better” ammo than what I’ve been shooting.
I always used xm193 in my 16 and 18" rifles because my thought was fragmentation is an advantage, but now, other than a little extra velocity- the xm193 wouldn’t be much better than the mfs 55 gr .223?
So my question really is: w/o fragmentation, would one advise just going for the heaviest round in their budget?
I checked out that thread- but couldn’t find exactly what I was looking for
m855 was 820 rds for $349 at PSA earlier this year- that’s close to .40/round (.425)
M855 offers you no terminal ballistic advantage out of a Mk18. You need to go to one loads noted in the sticky thread if you want improved on target capability with an SBR: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881.
So Doc: are you saying that 855 is no better/worse than 193 in a 10" barrel?
I only ask because there is certainly a limit to what I want to spend, and if there is no difference- ill just stick with the mfs of xm193 (even though I know the mfs is a little slower)
They are both awful. I think you need to adjust your expectations in price much closer to $1.00 per round to achieve adequate terminal performance past 25 yards.
I recently bought a case of Privi 55g FMJ for my 10.3" and it functions flawlessly. I’m just going out on a limb here and ASSuming that Privi SP would perform better than XM193 out of a 10.3"
If your rifle will stabilize a 75 gr bullet. If not, PPU makes the same stuff in 69 gr.
Molon tested the 75 gr stuff and found it to be very terminally effective. The link above has it for $99 for 200 rds or $487 for 1000 rds. So a bit more than what you’re looking for but a lot less than TAP.
Your only other option is to hand load a reasonable facsimile of one of the cartridges from the list using the exact same bullet and working up to the same velocity. It has to be the exact same, not a similar bullet because nuances in bullet construction can cause one bullet to fragment in a situation that a similar bullet won’t. Consider loading a soft point to extend the range at which it will perform well.
If you want to practice with $1/rd ammo, be my guest, that’s certainly your right. But why? It’s not match ammo, it’s defensive ammo.
Maybe I should have reworded the “defense ammo”…
Right now Ive been shooting a bunch of the MFS .223 ammo. great for staying on my game, but not I wouldn’t imagine it’s the worlds ballistically sound ammo. but it’s been great for plinking!
When I say 1K rounds of “defense ammo”, I’m not talking about hornady tap, or Barnes ammo. I just mean a “better” ammo than what I’ve been shooting.
I always used xm193 in my 16 and 18" rifles because my thought was fragmentation is an advantage, but now, other than a little extra velocity- the xm193 wouldn’t be much better than the mfs 55 gr .223?
So my question really is: w/o fragmentation, would one advise just going for the heaviest round in their budget?
I checked out that thread- but couldn’t find exactly what I was looking for
m855 was 820 rds for $349 at PSA earlier this year- that’s close to .40/round (.425)
are you hunting? law enforcement? home defense? shtf teotwawki?
For hunting or home defense, get the best possible ammo you can, even if it’s expensive, and load a couple of mags. If it’s shtf teotwawki, don’t know what to tell you.
Koshinn, I think there was a misunderstanding earlier in what you and I considered “defense” ammo. Like I say- I’ve been plinking with some underpowered .223 55 gr fmj, so compared to that I was thinking something like m855 would be considered significantly more ballistically sound, turns out- looks like that is not the case. (which is exactly why I posted the thread- I didn’t know)
I usually like to buy in bulk to save a little money, and I don’t have any interest in buying 1k rounds of TAP, etc…
I do use this rifle for HD and hog hunting. It hasn’t been “drop em where they stand” with the hogs, but a quick double tap has brought down 3) 250+lbs pigs with relative ease. (with m855)
I’m trying to find a balance of the best affordable ballistically sound ammo for a 10.3" barrel. I read several threads earlier- but couldn’t find one specific to short barrels.
I do like your idea to load up just a couple mags with high class ammo (the gooooood stuff) and just plink with the rest- but my concern has always been that my rds will be sighted in for the el cheapo plinking ammo and then IF I ever needed to use the “defense” ammo for home protection or whatever else- my zero would be off. Is this a valid concern? I realize that in the dead of night at 20 yards- it’s not going to make a huge difference, but in that infintesimmaly small chance that I ever need it to do more that 50 yards with precision- I just don’t want to get caught with my pants down.
You’ve got it backwards. You zero with the good stuff. Preferably, you zero with both and write down your dope but odds are pretty good that with unmagnified optics and within 200m, you aren’t likely to see a big difference between POI with most loads.
If your plinking ammo is 55 gr ball, then it would make a lot of sense for you to choose a 55 gr soft point (TBC, for example) as your defense ammo.
Did you look at the link I posted for the 75 gr PPU? Here is the link to the thread over at Arfcom where Molon posted the test results for it. Cliff notes: it performs VERY well. Later velocity testing indicates that Prvi has increased the velocity substantially. '08 vintage stuff got about the same velocity out of my 11.5" as Molon got with the earlier stuff from his 16".
I also tested it in my own gelatin (calibrated grocery store stuff, not proper 25A bloom) and got essentially the same result as Molon.
There is no reason to expect that it wouldn’t perform well out of your 10.5", at least at close range (inside the house). For longer range defensive use, you’d probably be better off with a soft point.
Why did I not already think about that! (Zero’ing with the good stuff)
I run a lot of 2 gun matches and rarely have the chance to sight in between matches- I guess it’s unlikely that the poi would be much more than 2-3 inches at 50 yards?
At 100m (the distance I zero my magnified optics for) I get less than an inch difference between POI for 75 gr Prvi vs a 65 gr 5.56mm pressure hand load that I often use. Both of those shoot between 1"-1.5", depending on how well I’m doing that day. M193 and M855 shoot about the same POI but in about 3"-4" groups. It’s likely that whatever your plinking ammo is, it puts up larger groups than any good stuff you might use for defense. When I was shooting 3 gun, I’d just use whatever the cheapest stuff I had available for the close range cardboard targets and the Prvi or hand loads for longer range steel. Even then, the farthest target was about 400m but most were around 200m or closer. At 200m, an 8" only needs about 4 moa to hit so M913 and M855 would have been sufficiently accurate to hit those targets.
If you do have a significant difference between POI with your plinking/blasting/2gun match ammo and your “good stuff,” you simply write down your dope so you don’t need to “sight in” between matches and informal shooting or training. You just make the adjustments to your sights. If you are using quality sights, the adjustments will be repeatable.
Be sure to buy a box to ensure your rifle likes it before buying a whole case. Last time I bought it, it came in 200 round vinyl bags containing 10 boxes each. Great for long term storage, I think.
Id hope my DD 10.3 would eat anything I gave it, but this is sound advice. Thanks for the vid, I may consult you in the future on how to make this stuff!
I can’t comment on the Gold Dot but my 65 gr Game King hand load does 2,440 out of my 11.5". That’s a 5.56mm pressure load, too, according to Ramshot. Another 100 fps faster, even out of a shorter barrel should be very doable, but I doubt it’s going to fall in SAAMI spec for .223 Rem.
