-1 operator81

Marketplace Feedback
1

Item in question - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=134298

Buyer on here(I will not post real names unless it comes down to it) with the user name of operator81 sends me both a PM and an Email stating the following:

operator81 Online
Member

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wide Open Spaces
Posts: 220
iTrader: (19)
DDM4 Rail
Thanks for putting up pictures. I’ll take it. What’s your PP info?
-****

So I reply to his email(I have all the emails). I send him an email with my Paypal information and saying send as a gift payment or add 3.5% for the fees.

After he pays for the item, he replies about 10-15min later asking if the item would work with a standard FSB. I told him I had no clue and couldn’t remember if the rifle it came off of had one or not(said rifle is LONG GONE).

He replies another 10 or so minutes later stating he has “done more research” and found out it will not work and works only with DD’s proprietary FSB. (actual reply - Ok. I looked on their website and the only one that looks like it is the new DDM4 with their own front sight post doesn’t have a bayonet lug. I’m thinking this one won’t fit my rifle unless I do some serious mods to the site. Would you consider doing a refund?)

My reply was no refunds, the money has already been transferred.

His reply is to state he is filing charges with Paypal’s dispute because I misrepresented the item.

How was it misrepresented? THERE ARE PICTURES OF THE ACTUAL ITEM!

Now, in MY own stupidity, I sent a reply back calling him childish names. Yep, stupid on my part, but I’ve had it up over my head with stupid people.

Long story short, I will be giving a refund, but will never deal with this person again, and recommend you don’t either, lest he change his mind after the fact.

I have since edited the item to include it came off of a Daniel Defense DDM4V1 upper to alleviate any more headaches on my part.

I will be extremely pissed off if my PayPal account is shutdown as that is the shopping cart for my web-store.

2

Here’s our conversation via email. We’ve already left our respective iTrader feedback, I assumed we were just going to go on our separate ways but he seems intent on making a larger stink than it needed to be:

Jon Fuhrman <jonwfuhrman@gmail.com>

3:05 PM (5 hours ago)

to me
PayPal is jfarmscompany@gmail.com

Send as a gift payment or add 3.5% for their fee.

Also, email me your shipping info
Adam Gane <wannaskimt@gmail.com>

3:17 PM (5 hours ago)

to Jon
$207 sent. You can ship to the Montana address on the PP receipt.

Thanks,
Adam
Adam Gane <wannaskimt@gmail.com>

3:38 PM (5 hours ago)

to Jon
Did some checking, does this rail work with a standard FSP w/bayonet lug?
Jon Fuhrman

3:54 PM (4 hours ago)

to me
No clue. Can’t remember if the rifle I took it off had one or not
Adam Gane <wannaskimt@gmail.com>

3:57 PM (4 hours ago)

to Jon
Ok. I looked on their website and the only one that looks like it is the new DDM4 with their own front sight post doesn’t have a bayonet lug. I’m thinking this one won’t fit my rifle unless I do some serious mods to the site. Would you consider doing a refund?
Jon Fuhrman

4:38 PM (4 hours ago)

to me
So no refunds. The money has already been transferred.
Adam Gane <wannaskimt@gmail.com>

4:41 PM (4 hours ago)

to Jon
So I have a rail that I cannot use. I did more checking and DD doesn’t sell this rail by itself, only on an upper or complete rifle as it is only compatible with their proprietary front sight. I really wish you had advertised this better. If refunds aren’t an option, I’ll just have to go through paypal’s buyer protection.
Jon Fuhrman

4:54 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
You sir are a ****ing piece of shit. I will be filing charges with PayPal and I will get your stupid ass banned from M4Carbine.

It was advertised as necessary, and is up to YOU THE BUYER to ask questions before you pay.
Adam Gane <wannaskimt@gmail.com>

5:05 PM (3 hours ago)

to Jon
I advised you the rail would not fit, which was not advertised. I polietly asked for a refund (the money was transferred less than an hour before) and you refused. And now you become hostile. I’ve already notified the EE moderator to give them a heads up, they can decide if they want to get involved or not. The EE is a place built on honesty and trust. I trusted you to sell a rail that as described and not one that requires a proprietary part. If you do not know enough about the rail to ensure fit then you need to state that in the ad. When someone reads an add for a FSP rail, one assumes it fits M4s with a standard FSP.

Once again, please refund my purchase price.
Jon Fuhrman

5:17 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
Do not EVEN talk to me about the EE on M4Carbine. I have been buying and selling there for YEARS. I have 54 positive feedback and over 1300 posts. I know how EE works. The Rail is CLEARLY PICTURED. You are the moron for not asking questions before you buy. You clearly have no clue how life works.

I will issue a refund, but not a full refund. 20% restocking fee.
Adam Gane <wannaskimt@gmail.com>

5:19 PM (3 hours ago)

to Jon
I will only accept a full refund. Restocking fees don’t apply unless an item has shipped. There is nothing to restock. The transaction was barely an hour old when I requested a refund. You are now listing the rail back up for sale, which indicates it is “in stock.”
Jon Fuhrman

5:21 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
I will not refund you a full amount for something that is clearly your stupidity for not asking questions or looking and photos clearly enough BEFORE the initial purchase. I’ve already escalated this with paypal and I’ve called them to push it through faster. Considering how much money in transactions I’ve done this year alone with paypal, I should be ruled for favorably.
Adam Gane <wannaskimt@gmail.com>

5:28 PM (3 hours ago)

to Jon
You asked for 3.5% to cover fees (against their policy). You asked for gift to avoid their fees (also against their policy). Full refund and I go away. Anything less and I’ll start to stink.
Jon Fuhrman

5:29 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
fine, you know what, I’m tired of dealing with stupidity from people like you who can’t read and fail to address any concerns and then some how its the other persons fault. As soon as possible(meaning when paypal lets me as its not offering the option anymore), I will issue a refund. But I will go out of my way to make sure you never do business on M4C again.
Jon Fuhrman

5:49 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
Spoke with someone at PayPal, she said she will be closing the dispute and issuing a refund. This is my last communication with you unless there are issues on PayPal’s end(which I doubt).

3

As I stated, childish remarks were made on my part. The problem is your incompetence to fully research what you were buying before you bought it. There are pictures posted showing full what what you were buying. If you had questions, ask before you buy. That’s just common intelligence.

You’ve been refunded, my name doesn’t need to be tarnished for your lack of effort.

4

Yes, I did not do my due diligence in fully researching the rail before sending money. I was looking for a bolt-up DD FSP rail and when I saw one with the bolts in the rear I jumped on it. Only after did I notice the QD swivels in the front and rear, which caused me to do some research as I was not aware of DD offering a rear bolt up rail with QD swivels. It was then that I noticed the rail was the same being sold in the newer DDM4V1 rifles with the proprietary front sight.

I “assumed” when I bought the rail that it would fit a standard M4 carbine. The ad did not reflect otherwise. When I found it would not, I politely asked for a refund, to which you refused.

Seeings how your ad did not correctly describe the rail and you weren’t willing to be flexible, I filed a claim with Paypal. You obviously saw an error with your ads description as you have since edited it, although, not in such a way that clearly states it will not fit an M4 with a bayonet lug equipped front sight.

Your response to my paypal claim lacked articulation and tact as you chose to swore at me and threaten to get me banned. You then offered a refund less a 20% restocking fee, which would have made sense if the transaction wasn’t less than an hour old.

Next you tried to bully me into thinking you had more pull with Paypal than I do. I did what I usually do when bullied, which is push back by naming some different ways in which you were violating Paypal’s user policy, to which you finally did the right thing.

Thinking the whole thing was done and over, I came back home from a BBQ ready to offer to retract my - iTrader rating since you finally decided to refund my money, only to find out you’d been busy not letting this go.

I try clearly describe what I am selling and if I don’t know 100% if what I am selling will work for all applications, I state in the ad that I don’t know. DD sells 4 different FSP rails. I thought I had the right one, turns out I didn’t. I asked for some understanding and flexibility and didn’t get it. When you stated in your email that you didn’t want to hear from me again I assumed that was a two way street. I guess it wasn’t.

5

I’m going to hit the pause button on the remote now.

Case has been stated, rebuttal has been posted. I think PM’s are in order, if you gents want to discuss this further.