-1 CoryM465 False Paypal Claim. Finalized PG 7

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1

Well Gent’s,

Here’s hopeful I haven’t been had in this situation. I’ve made Corym465 aware of this thread so hopefully he will join us too add some clarity.

Unfortunately we’re either dealing with buyer’s remorse, someone who’s very impatient, or hopefully, not someone trying to scam me out of some cash via Paypal. Funds were sent via Paypal Goods & Services.

I’d like to give Cory the opportunity to explain the situation as I feel like I’ve been had. I’ve never encountered a person so anxious to begin a claim for non-delivery with Paypal not even 48 hours after an item has been shipped.

USPS states a delivery window of 2-9 days after July 8th for Parcel Select. It’s been five. The package is officially 5 hours behind schedule for delivery by end of business day Today the 13th.

I will allow Cory to return the barrel after it arrives if he so desires. If the barrel truly ends up lost after the USPS delivery window, and the 15 day waiting period before making a USPS claim, I feel that error is on USPS.

At Cory’s OK, I shipped the barrel via my choice of speed (Parcel Select). Cory did not request insurance. Frankly, I think some of his requests/demeanor are a unrealistic.

Ad: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?170996-SOLD-125-Wilson-Combat-11-3-quot-Stainless-SBR-Barrel

Cory initially PM’d me via M4C with a trade offer for my barrel on July 3rd. I declined.

On July 5th Cory emailed me and we did a bit of negotiating, all of which is transpired below.

July 5th 4:48PM Cory - “Understood. Regarding the barrel I’d do $100 + Shipping. Your choice of shipping method.”

July 5th 4:58PM Cory- “I’ll do $105 shipped an I’ll cover the PayPal fees.”

July 5th 5:00PM Graham- “Great, $105 shipped for the barrel with no gas block.”

July 5th 5:11PM Cory -“Funds Sent”

July 5th 5:15PM Graham-" Funds received. Please let me know what address you’d like the barrel shipped too."

July 5th 5:15PM Cory (Address Redacted)

July 6th 12:21PM Graham- “Cory, your barrel will ship out tomorrow. Thanks again. Tracking # 9461209699938591375748”

Tracking shows the barrel picked up on the 8th of June. Here’s where it gets interesting…

July 11th 9:00PM Cory -“Hey man it seems that USPS has lost the package. I’m requesting a refund, but will do all I can to help you with a claim with USPS.”

July 12th 10:59AM Graham-“What makes you think USPS has lost the package? Have you checked tracking? It shows its scheduled for delivery on Monday. I’d hope you wouldn’t request a refund for a lost package before the item was scheduled to arrive.” (Included is the same screenshot I sent too Cory in this email)

July 13th 5:45PM Cory -“Brother Monday has come and gone and it’s still not here. Murfeesboro is an hour and some change drive for me from my home. It shouldn’t have taken this package more than a couple of days. USPS has missplaced this package.”

July 13th 6:39PM Graham-"Have you contacted the USPS? The barrel was shipped parcel select (ie standard mail) as no shipping method was specified. Notice on the tracking it says “expected delivery date”, not guaranteed as it would say with priority mail. To ship the barrel priority would have required a medium flat rate box at around $11.50. When we agreed to $100+shipping I felt it was understood that it wouldn’t be shipping priority as you did not pay for priority shipping. You also did not elect to purchase insurance on the package. The listing clearly states insurance is at the option/expense of the buyer. I’m sure it will arrive shortly. This isn’t the first instance of a government operation not meeting an expected time frame. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help, but I don’t really have any avenues to assist you with at this point. "

July 13th 6:48PM Cory-“It’s not my responsibility to contact USPS. The responsibility is on the seller to insure that the package arrives at the buyers address safely. Whatever you put in your ad became irrelevant once we started negotiating. XXX shipped, means as part of that price you ship me the package and take responsibility for the packaging arriving. I don’t care how cheap you shipped it as long as it made the trip. You obviously shipped it with tracking and the tracking indicates that the package is lost.”

July 13th 7:55PM Graham-“Sir, I’m trying my best to assist you in an equally frustrating situation. Asking me too accept responsibility for the safe arrival of your package outside the confines of making sure it’s packed appropriately as too not incur damage is beyond the realm of what any of us our capable of. We are in agreement. I obviously shipped the package. I obviously shipped the package with tracking. Both of these things were done to prevent accusations of me taking your money and not delivering. I have delivered the item to the USPS as it shows via tracking. Your claim is with the USPS, not I, nor PayPal. There is literally nothing I can do to decrease the chances of USPS error once I’ve handed a package to the postman. I feel like I’m being taken for a ride here as you’ve requested a refund twice before your item was ever even scheduled to be delivered. As such I have brought the issue to the attention of an EE moderator for assistance. Please prove me wrong with your intentions, our community forum is respected as a place where those can do business with confidence as members are expected to operate at a higher standard. Let me know if I can be of further assistance, my contact info is listed below.”

July13th 8:30PM Cory-“I haven’t accused you of anything yet. It’s very simple the responsibility of the package arriving at my house is on you. Taking out insurance on a package you’re shipping is the route most people take. It allows you to recur your lost funds from the transaction from the carrier you selected to ship your package. If you so choice to not take out insurance, YOU take the risk that the package may not arrive at its destination. At which time you would lose x funds when you refunded buyer.How you think it’s my responsibility to contact the carrier you selected to do business with is beyond me. I initially offered to help in your claim in any way I could, I didn’t offer to let you send me down a rabbit hole of bull shit in which I’ll ultimately be told that I have no claim as I’m not the shipper.I’m no stranger to buying and selling things online in these respected forums. Hence when I see that a package hasn’t been updated I’m the system in 2+ business days, it’s a pretty clear that something has happened to it where that it is not able to be scanned. If you want to go to the forums that fine with me, it doesn’t change my stance and it doesn’t change my claim on PayPal. If you would provide a link to the dispute and post my emails exactly as I’ve posted them minus personal identifiable information I would appreciate it.”

July 13th 9:16PM Graham-"I’m not ashamed to admit when I’ve been hustled. Touché. I’m sure your barrel will arrive within the 2-9 day delivery window as quoted by the USPS. I’ve presented my information to PayPal and you’ve presented yours. I’ve forwarded to the appropriate moderators. We shall let the appropriate channels handle any further action. Please do not contact me at any personal addresses regarding this issue, you may go through the moderated thread or via PayPal. "

2

I’m sure it’ll turn up in a day or two. I’ve had plenty of issues with the USPS in the past myself.

3

I just had a similar problem with USPS. Package said out for delivery. It never came. I contacted USPS that day, and they found the package and I received it a few hours later.

As the shipper/seller I would all the Post Office.

4

I’ve had priority packages and payments take almost 2 weeks to finally be delivered.
A few weeks ago a sent a priority package from Jacksonville Florida to Tampa that took almost 10 days because it somehow ended up in California:confused:
But I’ve never had anything go m.i.a. In close to 400 deals.

5

Did you guys actually read the thread?

6

I had a package that was shipped USPS, and the item didn’t arrive until 8 days after the expected delivery date. I never ship USPS unless there is no other option. Even then I ship it with the best tracking they offer as to avoid these issues. It’s more expensive but the extra cash probably doesn’t seem like a big deal now.

7

In my experience USPS tracking is pretty subpar. Seems the guy is jumping the gun on filing a claim. And regarding the insurance being your responsibility, he seems way off base there too.

Also not sure how a paypal refund will work out considering the nature of the item and their policy regarding most firearm related items.

8

^^ I agree completely. He’s way off base in regards to his comments about insurance, and he does seem to be really impatient. If he is out-right refusing to deal with the post office on his end (won’t even make the trip to ask them if they’ve misplaced the package) then that would raise some major red flags with me as well.

As far as filling a paypal claim for a firearms related transaction goes, he may end up getting both of your accounts locked. If I were you I’d make sure there wasn’t any cash sitting in my paypal account, as they will confiscate what’s there if they decide to lock your account.

9

Nice, I’m not even given the link to this thread as I had requested nor has the buyer/seller dialogue been post verbatim as I had requested.

First off it should be noted that I’m located in Madison AL. I can make the drive to Murfeesborro in under 90 minutes easily. Unless this package got routed through Oregon, it has been lost somewhere.

Secondly, in my initial email in response to the problem in shipping, I offered to do anything I could to help the guy make a claim. If that had been talking to my local post master AFTER he contacted his and chased down his leg (especially since the last recorded location is in his neck of the woods), I would have been glad too. However, I will not be out of pocket, because the seller made the decision not to pay an extra $1 for insurance and elected to use an the cheap unreliable delivery service. I generally use FedEx (paying a couple of extra bucks) to insure the buyer gets what they paid for from me. I’ve been on the shipping end of this and the grunt work required to contact the appropriate staff at USPS and filing a claim is a nightmare.

Third, Until an option if offered by the delivery service, so that the recipient can go online and add insurance to a package en route to their address, the responsibility of insurance is on the shipper(read buyer). UNLESS as part of the negotiations the buyer sends a prepaid shipping label to the seller to use for shipping.

Note: I did not take the barrel under the conditions stipulated in the sellers for sale thread. The item was negotiated. Therefore, prior stipulations that were not included in the negotiations are null and void.

Look I feel for the guy. However, it was he who accepted the risk of shipping through USPS per their cheapest possible method. I did not accept that risk.

Hell, I would have been happy to have been patient while he did a little leg work on the package. He didn’t offer anything of the sort. He politely told me to pound sand. Therefore, I went to paypal (where I elected to pay for the buyers insurance offered to protect myself from this scenario) and submitted a claim on a “machine piece of Stainless Steel” I had purchased. If he wants to mentioned firearms to paypal, screwing us both, that would be a clear indication of character or lack there of.

I’ve actually had a package arrive 3 months after shipping through USPS Priority. If that does occur (assuming I’ve been refunded) I’ll be happy to ship it back on the seller’s dime or I may send him the funds previously agreed upon (depending on whether or not I’m still interested in the barrel 3 months from now).

This joker has already moved to give me a negative feedback. Could someone please point me to the appropriate moderator to discuss having that removed?

10

Alright so here’s the buyer/seller dialogue as it actually happened. It’s inverted and a little difficult to read as I copy and pasted it directly from gmail, with personal information redacted.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Cory wrote:

It's not my responsibility to contact USPS. The responsibility is on the seller to insure that the package arrives at the buyers address safely.

Whatever you put in your ad became irrelevant once we started negotiating. XXX shipped, means as part of that price you ship me the package and take responsibility for the packaging arriving. I don't care how cheap you shipped it as long as it made the trip. You obviously shipped it with tracking and the tracking indicates that the package is lost.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Alexander  wrote:

    Have you contacted the USPS?
    The barrel was shipped parcel select (ie standard mail) as no shipping method was specified. 
    Notice on the tracking it says "expected delivery date", not guaranteed as it would say with priority mail. 
    To ship the barrel priority would have required a medium flat rate box at around $11.50. When we agreed to $100+shipping I felt it was understood that it wouldn't be shipping priority as you did not pay for priority shipping. 
    You also did not elect to purchase insurance on the package. The listing clearly states insurance is at the option/expense of the buyer. 
    I'm sure it will arrive shortly. This isn't the first instance of a government operation not meeting an expected time frame. 
    Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help, but I don't really have any avenues to assist you with at this point. 

    Alexander 

    On Jul 13, 2015, at 5:45 PM, Cory wrote:

> Brother Monday has come and gone and it’s still not here. Murfeesboro is an hour and some change drive for me from my home. It shouldn’t have taken this package more than a couple of days. USPS has missplaced this package.
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Alexander wrote:
>
> What makes you think USPS has lost the package? Have you checked tracking?
> It shows its scheduled for delivery on Monday.
> I’d hope you wouldn’t request a refund for a lost package before the item was scheduled to arrive.
> <image2.PNG>
>
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2015, at 9:00 PM, Cory wrote:
>
>> Hey man it seems that USPS has lost the package. I’m requesting a refund, but will do all I can to help you with a claim with USPS.
>> On Jul 6, 2015 12:21 PM, "Alexander wrote:
>>
>> Cory,
>> Your barrel will ship out tomorrow. Thanks Again -Alex
>> Tracking #
>>
>> 9461 2096 9993 8591 3757 48
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 5, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Cory wrote:
>>>
>>> Cory
>>> Address Redacted
>>> On Jul 5, 2015 5:15 PM, "Alexander wrote:
>>>
>>> Funds Received.
>>> Please let me know what address you’d like the barrel shipped too.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alex
>>>> On Jul 5, 2015, at 5:11 PM, Cory wrote:
>>>> Funds sent.
>>>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Alexander wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Great, $105 shipped for the barrel with no gas block.
>>>> Paypal is XXX
>>>> Thanks
>>>>> On Jul 5, 2015, at 4:58 PM, Cory wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I’ll do $105 shipped an I’ll cover the PayPal fees.
>>>>> On Jul 5, 2015 4:48 PM, "Alexander wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Understood.
>>>>> Regarding the barrel I’d do $100 + Shipping.
>>>>> Your choice of shipping method.
>>>>>> On Jul 5, 2015, at 4:38 PM, Cory wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want you can keep the gas block. I don’t need it.
>>>>>> On Jul 5, 2015 4:37 PM, "Alexander wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No offense, but I don’t need to sell it that badly.
>>>>>> The gas block is $60 on its own, I’d rather keep the barrel to burn up on my M16 vs. get $90 out of it.
>>>>>>> On Jul 5, 2015, at 4:31 PM, Cory wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can give you $100 shipped.
>>>>>>> On Jul 5, 2015 4:29 PM, "Alexander wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not really interested in anything there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> > On Jul 3, 2015, at 11:54 AM, corym465 - M4Carbine.net Forums wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > This is the message:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > SOLD $125 Wilson Combat 11.3" Stainless SBR Barrel - AR Parts & Furniture (EE) - M4CARBINE.net

Roll Tide

“It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” — George S. Patton

“Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither.” Benjamin Franklin

11

Cory,

If you don’t mind could you please highlight any discrepancies in the emails I’ve posted vs the transcripts you’ve posted. As far as I’m aware the only thing I did not include were the first few emails where you elected to have me keep the gas block.

“Alright so here’s the buyer/seller dialogue as it actually happened.” - You’re insinuating that I’m not posting the transcripts truthfully. I’d like to see where I’ve edited something.

To address your claims:

I’ve contacted the USPS first thing this morning. Do you know what they stated? Verbatim-

“Sir, the information listed in the delivery tracking status is THE EXPECTED DELIVERY DATE, ITEMS ARE NOT GUARANTEED BY THIS DATE. It can take up to 9 days for your package to arrive. Should the package not arrive in 9 days, after an additional 15 days you or the receiver may make a claim with the USPS. An item not being scanned recently has nothing to do with it’s delivery status”

Cut to the chase. This isn’t about insurance, this isn’t about tracking. This isn’t about Paypal.

You threatened to chargeback your Paypal payment less than 48 hours after I’d confirmed tracking with USPS. I can’t get a check across town to my bank via USPS in two days.

Your comments about my failure to insure the package are borderline delirious. You are jumping the gun with ludicrous demands about “my responsibilities” as a shipper.

Your abilities to quote USPS insurance rules word for word are really quite impressive though, almost like this isn’t your first rodeo.

Your comments regarding using “buyer’s insurance” via Paypal are spot on also. 90% of us here use Paypal gift, but there’s no avenue for chargeback there is there? I’ve got 100% feedback and 100% success using gift on this site. Do you?

Really, you would have happily been patient? It’s clearly coming across in your emails. It’s great to know that when the barrel arrives you’d allow me to pay to ship it back to you. That’s gracious of you.

12

Two things:

  1. It clearly states “insurance is at the option/expense of the buyer”, regardless of price negotiations, it is naive and laughable to think the seller must automatically include that since a different price other than advertised was agreed upon.

  2. I deal with this all time with USPS, especially when shipping a long gun. Tracking/insurance does not update past the “package has been accepted at our facility” and after several days it just switches to delivered. Granted this isn’t the case, but their tracking is sub-par as someone mentioned. Additionally, it is not uncommon for deliveries to occur days after the “expected” delivery date. Hence, why guaranteed delivery is another option/tier of shipment.

Also, I don’t see how a refund was requested while the item was still out for shipping. If it says “lost” or “delivered” and it wasn’t, then by all means, a refund is in order. However, overal it seems to an unrealistic expectation on the part of the buyer in terms of USPS accuracy and punctuality. Shipping gets delayed all the time, wait a week or at least several BUSINESS days after the expected delivery date, then contact the buyer to inquire about it.

13

I’m in complete agreement. Should USPS declare the package lost, or undeliverable, we’re having a different conversation.

48 hours after shipment he emailed requesting a refund for a lost package, despite USPS showing it still in transit.

45 minutes after 5PM on the expected delivery date he’s filed a claim with Paypal, stating it’s defiantly lost, you only live an hour from me.

I’ve never dealt with anyone who refused to contact the shipper regarding the status of a package, that’s crazy. I’ve called them twice today and gotten the same answer. “Sir, it’s an expected delivery timeframe, not guaranteed”.

USPS will not even declare the package lost until August 7th. I can’t even start a claim with them until that date.

14

Boss I didn’t contact you at all until 6 days after I had sent you payment. You requested I wait until Monday, 2 days later, to see if it shows, which I did. Had you contacted me with that response from USPS after that contact, I’d be patiently waiting until Monday right now, instead of doing this. You didn’t, you told me to pound sand. I do have very little patience for BS and waiting another week to file a paypal claim would only make my paypal claim more difficult.

Your comments about my failure to insure the package are borderline delirious. You are jumping the gun with ludicrous demands about “my responsibilities” as a shipper.

It seems you’re drinking the liberal kool aid the current administration. Contrary to their BS you are responsible for your actions and decisions.

Your abilities to quote USPS insurance rules word for word are really quite impressive though, almost like this isn’t your first rodeo.

No sir, this is not my first rodeo with USPS. As stated in my previous post they are a nightmare to deal with, which is why I now spend the extra money to use fedex.

Your comments regarding using “buyer’s insurance” via Paypal are spot on also. 90% of us here use Paypal gift, but there’s no avenue for chargeback there is there? I’ve got 100% feedback and 100% success using gift on this site. Do you?

So now I’m guilty because I protected myself from a seller like well you??? :confused:

Sir, I’ve ran group buys where I’ve dealt with $30k in funds, I’m currently in the process of finishing another group buy where I’m dealing with an excess of $10k in funds. Why would I screw up my reputation over $100???

Really, you would have happily been patient? It’s clearly coming across in your emails. It’s great to know that when the barrel arrives you’d allow me to pay to ship it back to you. That’s gracious of you.

Sir are you illiterate? I specified if it arrived 3 months from now I would ship it back. If you really think a 3 month or hell a 1 month transient time is acceptable, you’ve lost your mind.

15

Honestly, I’m bored and about to start getting ready for work. As such, I have no dog in this fight but am just posting observations…

corym465, your use of snide comments and personal attacks towards the seller dramatically reduce your credibility. Additionally, your logic on the insurance is fallible; you did not request it when the Sale Thread clearly states it is not included.

Ultimately, if the post office won’t declare the item lost until August 7th, both of you have no choice but to simply wait for that date. If it arrives by then corym465 gets his barrel, if it doesn’t, GrahamKAC gets to deal with a lost package claim. But honestly, I still have no idea how this is the sellers fault or how the responsibility is on him, UNLESS the item is officially declared lost by USPS.

16

What the Holy Hell? I specified in the negotiations that I was paying for the barrel SHIPPED. Which means I paid him for the barrel and shipment, that implies I paid for it to be successfully shipped to me. If he wasn’t satisfied with that price to adequately ship it than he shouldn’t have agreed to it. None of his BS (stipulations) from his listing were included in the negotiation.

When have you ever seen shipment tracking updated as “Lost” by any carrier, especially before a lost claim was approved??? I’d be interested in a screen shot of that.

I’m not asking for a refund because it missed the estimated arrival date. I’m asking for a refund, because I believe the package has been lost. Furthermore, I contacted him as soon as I noticed the problem, as starting a claim and/or contacting his post master make it more likely that they’ll locate the package when contacting them sooner than later. I was trying to do the right thing and help the seller, but I wasn’t/ am not interested in having my funds tied up while he fights the monster that is the USPS.

17

Most online retailers make you pay extra for insurance when shipping an item. That’s pretty standard now a days.

18

USPS picked it up at 10:30 on the 8th, at 9PM on the 11th you emailed me requesting a refund. Tracking said it wouldn’t arrive until the 13th. There is no justification for that. Plain and simple.

Your comments about our current administration, or kool aid are uncalled for. This isn’t GD. Let’s conduct ourselves like gentlemen please.

Any reasonable person would realize the most appropriate thing to do in this situation is to wait out the post office. You didn’t specify a delivery timeframe, and instructed me to use whatever shipping method I desired.

I never told you to “pound sand”, I stated there wasn’t anything I could do to help you, considering the post office stated they were still in the process of delivery.

This has escalated to insane proportions of unrealistic expectations.

19

Who does??? None I deal with. I’d start listing them off, but I’m not sure if that’d be okay because this is a sponsored site.

20

I understand your frustration, but it’s one of those things where you need to wait for the shipping company to declare it lost before you can expect a refund from either the carrier or the seller.