MY HD guns is a Mossberg 590A1, and I love it. However, I read that #1 Buck has a ballistic advantage over 00 because of the increased cross section of the additional pellets in the #1 shells. I’m no expert on ballistics for SG’s so I’d wonder if anyone has some data or gellatin tests between the two. Thanks, djd
I don’t know exactly, but I like no1 because you get double the projectiles with .30 cal pellets than they of the .33 cal 00bk.
Yes, #1 buck is my favorite.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
"12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.
Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.
In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker’s body.
For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not."
I use mostly 00 Buck as the Federal Tactical Flight control load is easier to find in 00 than #1.
I would like to know the terminal ballistic differnce between plated and non plated #1. I wonder if the plated works better against intermediate barriers such as auto glass and sheet metal.
Until then I’ll stick to 00 (8 pellet to eliminate the flyer) and 000 plated or not.
The new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps “Flight Control” load (LE132-1B) offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes. In bare gel, all 15 of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrate in the 14-18 inch range.
That’s pretty impressive Doc. May have to break out the ol’ 870p again.
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Glad there are open-minded people and experts here that agree with me. I got into a debate with some folks once on a shotgun forum over the merits of #1 vs 00 buck and everyone treated me like I was some kind of moron, no matter what evidence I used to support my stance.
That being said, I use Winchester Super X because:
A. I don’t care about tight patterning at HD ranges, in a worst case scenario, I’d have to shoot @ ~40 yds and I would like
my 10-15 yard groups to look more like the #5 target in this post:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=115097
B. I believe you get 1 extra pellet (16 compared to 15) compared to the Federal with flitecontrol wad, and an alleged extra 150fps.
C. Half the Federal buck I own leaks buffer - with as many rounds as I own, I don’t have time to glue or wax each shell. I don’t trust Federal’s crimps.
D. I managed to pick up a ton of Winchester when it was <$3 a box.
E. I’ve never had one not go bang when I pulled the trigger.
F. The bright red hull makes them easier to pick out of a pile of birdshot if need be - the Federal flitecontrol shells seem to use the same hulls as their #4 birdshot loads and in case my shells get mixed up somehow, I don’t want to try to stop a home invader with a clay load.
Thanks for the link Doc, have you ever done any ballistics gel testing with any variety of Ddupleks rounds (specifically the 1 oz steel slug)? I bought a large quantity for a ridiculous price before reading much up on it.
Thanks to DocGKR and everyone else for the info so far. Any opinions on Federal #1 Magnum? I’m stuck with a couple ammo cans of it, and the recoil doesn’t bother me so far. I guess it’s time to swap out my Federal low recoil 00 buck in/on my SG with the “Flight Control” #1?
Same here, on the #1 issue vs. 00 and the same old My carbine kicks the hell out of your HD SG. Thing is, I love my M4 LE but I don’t shoot it as well as my SG at my HD ranges and I simply don’t have as much training behind my M4 - that said I still think I’ll keep the SG as my primary HD weapon, and the info on #1 helps that decision.
I recent switched to the Federal (LE132-1B) after reading Doc’s suggestions. Found it for a great price @ GT Distributors. ( Only catch is you have to be LEO, military, etc to order. I think they only take orderes over phone last I heard.).
I don;t know if they still have it but I bought a thousand rounds back over the summer for $2.99 per box w/ free shipping. It recoils about the same or maybe a little less than the Reduced Recoil 00 Buck from Federal but it patterns great out of my 870. Not as concerned with over penetration with this compared to the much larger 00 Buck
Thanks for recommending such a great load Doc.
The advantage to lower recoil loads for defense is quicker follow up shots. With adrenalin and possibility being shot at your hit percentage will probably go down from what you can do on the range, I see faster follow up shots and possibly one more shell in the tube as more of an advantage than magnum pellet count or increased velocity.
Of course Todd; Thanks for the reminder. I switched from .40 to 9mm in pistol because I am more accurate and get faster follow up shots. Don’t know why I didn’t make the same conclusion for my SG. Don’t know what I’ll do with all that #1 Magnum I have sitting around. . . because I’ll be reloading with Federal LE132-1B. Anyone know an online source for civilians? Thanks.
Let me know if you find any. I’ve been looking and even checked with my LGS who has a lot of other “LE Restricted” items. No dice.
I prefer the #1 too.
WIth regard to LE132-1B It may take a bit of waiting till you find a place that has an overrun from an LE order. I was able to get an order from ammoman in the past.
-john
So for the average civilian without access to the #1, is the standard 00 the next best bet?
There are other #1 loads, they just don’t have the flight control wad. I suspect LE132-00 is easier to find so it becomes a trade off.
-john
To echo bzdog,
I would rather have 00 with flight control than #1 without. I have always been able to find LE 00 online and local stores but #1 is more scarce.
Federal is now making their “LE only” HST pistol ammo for sale commercially this year, maybe they will follow suit with their shotgun rounds as well.
I created a thread last night, but I was on a mobile device and didn’t see this thread. So, I’ll ask in here:
Since Federal #1 is nearly impossible to find, how is Winchester Super X #1 buck (xb121) as an alternative?
What kind of difference in patterning (I know it varies some by shotgun) difference are we going to see between Federal #1 or 00 with flight control vs. Winchester xb121?
I guess in terms of the current ammo shortage, the question really is if there is no Federal LE132-00 or LE132-1B, is it better to go with another 00 (Remington, Speer, Hornady, Winchester) or an alternative #1 like Winchester xb121?
More specifically, how about Hornady TAP 00 low recoil with Versatite wad vs. Winchester #1 buck xb121?