Took me long enough but here we go guys. I have some updates to this whole spiel that i will add as i have time. For now, enjoy and ask any questions you guys might have!
EDIT: Over the next few days i will be amending the review/overview with "spark notes" as requested by the mongoloid hordes of Glocktalk that apparently find reading to be painful. I hope that the more educated masses here dont mind the length.
Lets start off with a little bit of background. In 2008 i bought my first handgun, a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm and proceeded to go absolutely ballistic buying ammunition and shooting at every opportunity. Fast forward to April of 2011 and my love affair with the M&P platform came to an abrupt end, not because i found anything wrong with the guns i simply wanted to switch gears and try my hand at “perfection”. Into the safe my stable of M&P’s would go. Prior to April of that year i had always had considerable issues running Glocks. The generation 3 frames didnt come close to fitting my hands nor did they give me the proper length of pull or trigger reach. I consistently shot Glocks slower and less accurately than M&P’s. I also found them significantly harder to manipulate due to the huge grip. I have small to medium sized hands so the adjustable backstrap of the M&P was a great advantage to me. Enter the generation 4 line of Glocks. Forget, how the gun feels, i dont care about that and quite frankly, i think unless the handgun causes pain or fatigue the idea that a handgun should be comfortable is quite frankly, stupid. Handguns should be reliable, accurate and ergonomic enough not to cause issues after long term use. Beyond that, comfort is about as important to me as Lady Gaga’s nether regions.
My first Glock purchase would consist of a November 2010 production generation 4 G19. The slide had the “newer” matte grey finish the 03 recoil spring and of course, the 336 ejector. I went to the range the next day after purchasing the pistol and i still remember the first magazine of Federal Champion put through that gun. I had two horizontal stove pipes in the same magazine. I remember thinking to myself, “no big deal, the gun has to break in right? While at the same time wondering why i was trying to convince myself that this phenomenon was OK for a Glock.” It must have been the new car smell. At any rate, i kept shooting and experienced one more failure that first range session. The next day i had a range session scheduled with my training club and well, things didnt go well. I was running Wolf WPA 115 grain 9mm ammo and i experienced multiple double feeds and horizontal stovepipes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2irjeIEz0
You can see in the above video (i am the shooter in the back) a failure of the spent case to eject properly. This one was a horizontal stovepipe with the next round in the magazine partially pushed into the feedramp. You can see me lock the slide back, strip the mag and the casing AND live round fall out onto the deck. I reload and go. Also note the commentary in the back from one of my buddies. They were surprised by the frequency at which i was experiencing issues. I believe that particular string of fire was my seventh stoppage of the day. We wrapped up the range day and headed to grab dinner where my buddies ribbed me for several hours straight about being a limp wrister. Dont worry guys, i spit into the worst offenders burger. After dinner i headed home and took the gun down to see if there was any noticeable issue or defect with the pistol. Everything looked to be in order so i reassembled and made a note to call Glock the next day for the 0-4 spring.
Just to clarify, the pistol is stock except for a scherer negative connector, some very simple polish work and a ton of dry firing. At one point i had tried a generation 3 trigger bar but ran into issues with that bar grinding on the drop safety area of the trigger housing so i removed it. I also tried several different ghost connectors, all of which failed to reset at some point after relatively light live and dry fire. I decided to keep things simple and ran the rest of the rest of the year with the scherer connector and a smooth faced generation 4 G17 trigger bar.
Fast forward a few months and i have the new 0-4 spring and a ton of ammo ready to run through this puppy when i experienced this marvelous issue.
*Warning Strong Language.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JeUhu1C1Q0
But wait, it gets worse. I actually managed to tap and rack the slide off of the frame OVER a loaded, fully inserted magazine. This only happened once but i am able to reproduce the instance shown in the video clip 100% of the time. I HAVE replaced the slide lock and spring yet it still happens so im not sure exactly what the deal is here but i havent shot any targets with my slide lately so that’s a good thing...
At this point i have several thousand rounds through the gun and besides the initial teething issues, the slide rocketing off of the frame and the thousands of expletives i threw in Gastons direction, the gun appears to be calming down somewhat. Now, what i will say is that when “new” the gun was a massive failure in regard to outright reliability and function. After the aforementioned several thousand rounds and a rather ridiculous schedule of dry fire, the gun settled down and functioned albeit poorly. Let me expand on this. The pistol was a wannabe porn star if there ever was one. If ballistic bukkake ever existed, i was unwillingly being subjected to it every time i shot the gun. There was ZERO consistency in the pistols ejection no matter who was shooting it. There was no pattern to this pistol, period. Imagine a Clock and its numbers with a person standing in the exact middle of the circle. Now, picture a carpet of brass surrounding the shooter. Yep...that was my Glock 19.
Despite all of this, i continued shooting it and i was enjoying the gun despite the issues. No, i was not carrying it and wouldnt have carried it as the ejection with 127 grain Winchester Ranger ammunition was ridiculous as well and out of 200 rounds i experienced one failure to eject. Forget it, this is a range gun if there ever was one. Fast forward to Fall 2011. After months and 8k rounds i was starting to get fed up with how erratic the gun was as it was costing me time and points in my new found love of competition. During one of our many conversations in which i sit and drool like a caveman while i listen to Randy Lee eloquently lecture on the many random topics we discuss relating to firearms he mentioned that he was watching the issues with the Generation 4 Glock pistols. I wiped my chin, rubbed two brain cells together, created some semblance of a synaptic response and mentioned that i had a problematic gun if there ever was one. Long story short, my pistola was flying out to Randy’s capable hands.
Randy stoked the forges, donned his leather apron and nothing else (i hear this is how he works) and started forging, grinding and casting magical incantations to conjure up a fix. While all of this was going on i picked up a couple of generation 2 pistols AND a generation 4 Glock 17. Yes, i know, why would i ever buy another generation 4? I guess perhaps i am a sadist or i really am that dumb but since the 17 was again, going to be purely a range and competition pistol my life was hardly dependent on the machinery. What the hey. I picked up an July 2011 production G17 with the 023 spring and 336 ejector (of course). Off i went to the range giggling like a schoolgirl. I still remember the first magazine through this gun too. Failure to feed on the first round in the first magazine. The nose of the bullet dove on the feed ramp and failed to chamber. Ugh...ominous foretellings. I cleared the misfeed and commenced firing. Stovepipe, stovepipe, stovepipe. Uh...k. Tried different magazines, different ammo, hell, i even sacrificed a goat (not really) and nothing worked. This pistol was a lemon if there ever was one. In the first 2k rounds i had more stovepipes than i could count. Still, me being the sucker that i am, i continued shooting it as i wanted to see if it would settle down. In November of 2011 i scheduled a one day class at Frank Garcia’s Universal Shooting Academy. The round count for the single day was 2k (fired 2200) rounds and i was bringing my trusty (HA!!) Glock 17 with me. Without going too into detail the pistol failed to perform, period. Lets list some highlights.
Frank called the pistol a piece of shit more often than i could utter the word.
I lost count of the amount of stovepipes after 50.
I was hit more times in the face with ejected brass than Mike Tyson dolled out right hooks to the faces of his adversaries.
I had brass become lodged in the leg of my shooting glasses. Once the brass was so hot i smelled my flesh singeing as i finished the drill before removing the case. I ended up with a nice second degree burn on my right temple.
I was hit in the right eyelid...twice, after brass went above the brow beam of my eye protection. I had to safely abort the drill and clear the brass past my huge shnoz.
Frank thought i was mentally handicapped because i continued to shoot this gun.
To give you guys an idea of how much fun this pistol was, take a look. This was the weekend before my class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGVk5yYu3Kg
Some things to note. This particular pistol is set up the same way as my G19, current RSA. The only difference is that i use 5 lb wolf striker springs to take the weight down to 4.5ish pounds. Even more interesting about this whole endeavor is that my shooting partner ran a November 2011 production G17 (with the 30274 ejector) through the class right beside me and experienced not a single stoppage minus a light primer strike. He laughed at me endlessly the entire day. I cried.
A week after i came back from the class Randy said he had completed his magic and that my pistol was crapping out cartridges like a pro. Ever the consummate skeptic i raised an eyebrow and waited patiently while Randy shipped the pistol back to me. Now, my pistol is a proof of concept and we are dealing with prototype parts here so finishes, final shapes etc are not set in stone. Plus, the unicorn horn and hoof that Randy used to forge these parts is very hard to work with. Despite that, the machine work is clean, precise and pretty darned cool. I wasted no time, the pistol arrived 20 minutes before i was heading out to the range.
Boring is all that i can really say. The pistol now had an ejection pattern and an actual mechanical cycle to it rather than complete unpredictability. On the first day that i had the pistol i ran 500+ rounds of 115 grain Winchester white box through the pistol and 50 rounds of Winchester Ranger T. Not a single issue. Consistent ejection to three o’clock, each and every time. Over the course of the next month i ran 2139 rounds through the pistol and could not make it cough or even stutter. Now, lets go into detail about the modifications.
Randy was firmly convinced that there were four major players here with three of them being the big dogs involved in the issues. Namely the extractor, ejector and ejection port wall. As a result, Randy crafted a prototype Extractor and a one off ejector so that he could custom tune exactly when the case rim would contact the ejector during the extraction cycle of operation. He also milled the ejection port wall to lower it so that the case could not contact it on its way out of the port. Let me go into detail on the theory behind the original issue.
With the current RSA, current extractor and 336 ejector we are seeing issues with the cycle of operation. As the shell is fired and the pistol unlocks the frame flexes. As the slide moves rearward and the barrel drops or unlocks the case is held under tension by the extractor. As the slide continues to move rearward it pulls the casing out of the chamber. Towards the rear of its travel, the case is SUPPOSED to contact the ejector upon which time it will be kicked out of the ejection port. What we are actually seeing is the extractor claw losing its grip on the case rim and the case dropping down or simply floating in the ejection port area. The 336 ejector barely contacts the rim and the resulting horizontal or vertical stovepipe brings about violent cursing. This is the problem in a nutshell. Randy has worked his magic to create an extractor that could rip Skeletors face off. Extractor tension feels perfect and the cases are held VERY solidly against the breechface. Coupled with Randy’s ejector, the pistol operates as it should. Throw in the lowered ejection port and you have a pre 2010 generation 3 Glock albeit with a MUCH (metallurgic-ally speaking) stronger extractor.
After my initial testing of the G19 i received a 30274 ejector for my satanic G17 and fired an additional 5k rounds through the gun. 2.7k of which consisted of Randy’s Extractor coupled with the 30274 ejector. No issues to report. About the only thing that i can say is that with the Glock OEM extractor and the 30274 ejector my G17 is still erratic. It very rarely throws cases at my face but it does NOT cycle as authoritatively as the Randy Lee Apex Tactical Unicorn Magic Extractor with the 30274 ejector. Im guessing this is due to the precise nature of the milled part versus the cheaply made MIM junk that Glock is currently putting into the guns. I have no issues with MIM parts but they certainly do need to be produced properly and well, the current crop of extractors coming out of Glock HQ is sub par in quality.
To recap it all, since getting the pistol in early December i put 2139 rounds through the G19. I then went on to run 2.7 through the Extractor in my G17. I had wanted to run 5k rounds through one pistol but my timing sucked as i have dedicated myself to shooting my G17 production pistol so the testing is what it is. As a side note, i put 280 rounds through the G17 with the 336 ejector and Randy’s extractor. No issues to report. The rest of the testing was done with the Apex Extractor and the 30274 ejector. One more note, the Extractor has been returned to my G19 as it is now my most trusted pistol and the only Glock that i own that has been UNABLE to throw cases at my face. I will be carrying this until i shoot it to dust. The G17 has the OEM Glock extractor and the 30274 ejector and it appears to be working albeit with a slightly erratic ejection pattern.
So, in closing, however Randy and Apex Tactical sees fit to release this product will be A’OK with me. I WILL be adding at LEAST his extractor to all of my guns as it provides peace of mind that it is machined to a standard and that it is about as robust as it can get. I normally never advocate replacing parts unless they are needed as i do not ascribe to the theory of preemptive repairs but in my case, given my history i know what i can trust and what has let me down.
Below are pictures of both sides of the OEM and APex Extractor. Note the precise machining, VERY sharp claw and the lack of wear.
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. Thanks Magsz.
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