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Old 10-26-2009, 01:19 PM
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Ken Hackathorn Advanced Pistol AAR

I have had MANY opportunities to train with Ken and have always walked away impressed with the man's knowledge, shooting capability, professionalism and ability to articulate his positions on hot button topics in the training community.

Let's face some facts here. Ken has been teaching pistol longer than most of the current instructors have been alive! With age comes wisdom, experience and lessons learned. He has seen and done more than most people (or instructors) EVER will. He also has a personal relationship with anyone that is anyone in the firearms industry. This gives him the ability to share historical information on weapon design/background and important LE/Military shootings around the world (lessons learned from real gun fights).

This class was advertised as Advanced Pistol. It was not. What we got was force multiplier training. Ken being the wise man that he is, knows that everyone in the class ALSO teaches other people to shoot (or will do so in the future). So he treated us all like we were professional instructors and taught us how to better instruct new shooters on how to operate their weapons. This was simply fantastic from my POV as I teach basic pistol to upwards of 25-30 people a month. Learning how to better communicate what a new shooter should be doing is going to greatly help me to help them.

The other shooters in the class were some of the best I have seen in an open enrollment class. Everyone was squared away and eager to learn. There were no "that guy" in the class. Everyone shot at an advanced level and even Ken at times had to comment on the skill level of this class being one of the best he has seen. Ken could push as hard as he wanted and no one pushed back. Having been in a lot of classes that were filled with "that guy" I can honestly say that this experience was the best I have ever had in all my years of training.

So with that said, I would like to thank all the shooters in the class for being so good and apologize if I slowed you down.

For the first day, I ran my normal carry setup which is an HK P7 M8 in a Milt Sparks VM2. This gun ran well for me and was accurate as usual. At about 250-270 rounds, the piston system in it needed to be cleaned so that it could continue to run. Luckily for me, I follow the two is one and one is none rule and reached into my bag and pulled out my other P7 M8. If you are going to train with this weapon, you HAVE to own two of them (as they either get too hot to touch or the piston will accumulate carbon and fail to function).

On TD2, I went with my S&W M&P 9mm in a Raven holster. This gun ran very well (as usual).

There were very little/few gun malfunctions in the class. We had a wide mix of weapons from Glocks to HK P30's to custom 1911's.

One of the highlights in the class was Todd Green of pistol training reached his benchmark with his HK P30! Pretty cool stuff, but I will let him cover all that.

Drills. Ken had his usual bag of tricks and pulled out all the stops for this class. We ran the Triple nickel, to the 12345 to Todd's famous drill. We also did a lot of strong hand only shooting, night shooting and shoot house stuff with a "battle field pickup" mixed in. Nothing better than going into a shoot house, have your primary weapon run out of ammo with more bad guys to kill and you have to pick up whatever weapon is in the room. A learning experience was had by all I think.

Favorite comments from the class:

Drake: Are the guys wearing blue bandanas the bad guys?
Ken: Yes, just like last night. *In the shoot house the night before, good guys wore blue and Drake killed one of them.*

ToddG: What did you just do?
JW77: I was trying to figure out the trigger.
ToddG: Don't ever F*CKING touch my gun again.


Just an FYI to those that are ever thinking of taking a class with ToddG, JW777, Ken Hackathorn and me, you MUST have thick skin because if you do something silly, we won't leave you alone for days.


I have lots of pics and video from the class. Will get it up as I have time so keep checking the thread.



C4



Ken's POV on what commonly happens in a gun fight.








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Last edited by C4IGrant; 10-26-2009 at 01:29 PM
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:39 PM
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Sounds like it was a great learning experience for all of the shooter/instructors involved. I hope you can get another one of these scheduled in the near future so I can attend.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:40 PM
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:55 PM
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Ken Explaining your wobble zone.








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Old 10-26-2009, 02:39 PM
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Excellent write up there Grant, makes me wish I could have attended. Things to work towards.
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:50 PM
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Excellent write up there Grant, makes me wish I could have attended. Things to work towards.
Thanks much.


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Old 10-26-2009, 03:15 PM
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Old 10-26-2009, 03:57 PM
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How many got under 5 seconds on the triple nickel?
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:07 PM
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Thanks much.


C4
Anytime. Now that I'm out of class. I do have a question that one of your pictures addressed. I'm curious what one's 'wobble zone' is. I have shot and tried to pick up whatever I can when I was at leagues getting pointers from other shooters, but never heard that term before.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVickery View Post
Anytime. Now that I'm out of class. I do have a question that one of your pictures addressed. I'm curious what one's 'wobble zone' is. I have shot and tried to pick up whatever I can when I was at leagues getting pointers from other shooters, but never heard that term before.
When you hold a firearm to shoot it you will invariably notice that the sighting reference, whatever it may be, does not remain stationary on the target. Whether you are using iron sights, a RDS, or a laser, you'll notice some movement relative to the target. This movement gets more pronounced when you are moving with the weapon or when you are firing multiple shots, or as distance to the target increases.

This phenomenon screws with people's heads. While many people believe that you need an absolutely perfect bullseye type sight picture held absolutely still on the target to make an accurate shot, in reality you can make very accurate shots even with some deviation in the alignment and location of the sights.

This is the "wobble zone"...the area of acceptable deviation in the sighting system you are using that still allows you to make a shot assuming you execute a proper manipulation of the trigger.

For instance:

If you were to stand right up against the target as Ken is doing and you were to move the muzzle of the weapon in a 2" circle you would easily be able to see that the muzzle is still well within the center of the target. Were you to break a shot anywhere in that 2" circle the resulting hit would be pretty good. If you move back to 25 yards and make that 2" circle with the muzzle it will look like you would be off the IDPA target a lot of the time. In reality you're still painting the same 2" circle that you painted at point blank...but because of the distance to the target it appears that you are all over creation. (You can confirm this visually using a laser sight)

This leads to people who try to quickly break a shot during the fleeting moment when their sights are perfectly aligned. Generally they do this by snatching the trigger, which generally results in missing the mark. Learning to live with your "wobble zone" means learning to accept that the sights will move around some and concentrating on proper trigger manipulation to make accurate shots.

Ken used the circle drill and the figure 8 drill to have students apply the lessons about "wobble zone". The drills are simple: From about 7 yards on an IDPA target trace the outline of the 8" A zone with the front sight while concentrating on making a proper trigger press. If the trigger is properly pressed to the rear when the shot breaks it will be somewhere in the center of the target even though the sights may have appeared to be much farther off. The figure 8 drill involves tracing a figure 8 pattern while executing a proper trigger pull. Done properly it will also result in a good hit even though the sights were probably not in the center of the target. You can do the drill at different distances to see how the distance to the target changes the "wobble zone".

Learning to master the sights is something that many shooters struggle with because it's not terribly intuitive to believe that your sight picture can appear to be way off and yet you can make a solid hit. The drills Ken was teaching are designed to help people begin to learn what their "wobble zone" is so they get a sense of how much of a sight picture they really need to make an accurate shot on the target they are facing at the distance they are shooting. It's something people have to develop a "feel" for through practice and experience.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:54 PM
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JW777,

Thanks so much for explaining this to me. This makes a lot of sense and as a relative novice shooter I can relax and not worry/strive for the perfect sight picture.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:55 PM
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How many got under 5 seconds on the triple nickel?
ToddG shot the triple nickel in under 5 seconds. I'm sure he remembers his time.

I screwed up the drill so my sub 5 second score is meaningless. Of course, this presumes I am remembering my 3x5 run properly. I think I might be confusing parts of it with the 1-2-3-4-5 drill.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:14 PM
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Looks like Ken did his usual superlative job of communicating, teaching and even entertaining a bit. His course is so good it runs out of adjectives to describe it.

If you missed it, Ken is going to be here in N. TX in a couple of weeks for a repeat performance and I'd love to get you in that class!
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:15 PM
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How many got under 5 seconds on the triple nickel?
I think just ToddG.



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Old 10-26-2009, 05:16 PM
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Sounds like another great class. Wish I could have been there!
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:46 PM
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Box Drills






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Old 10-26-2009, 05:49 PM
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During one of the drills ToddG had a type 3 malfunction and he cleared it in a manner that not a lot of us had seen before.
In the below pics Rob Haught is demonstrating the technique.








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Old 10-26-2009, 06:20 PM
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Ken teaching us a break contact technique shooting strong hand. This would commonly be used if you needed to remove someone with one hand while drawing and firing your weapon with the other.











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Old 10-26-2009, 06:39 PM
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Can you explain that malfunction clearance? Thank you.
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Wayne777 View Post
ToddG shot the triple nickel in under 5 seconds. I'm sure he remembers his time.
4.55

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Can you explain that malfunction clearance? Thank you.
Grant videotaped me demonstrating and explaining it. Might be more appropriate to put in its own thread rather than take up space in someone else's AAR ...

My AAR:

As Grant pointed out, the students in this class were all well above average in terms of prior training experience and skill level. Some of the students also teach professionally, and between the skill level and the presence of so many trainers Ken skewed the class a bit from what he normally teaches.

This was the second time I took Ken's Advanced class. The first was more than twelve years ago on Long Island, which is when I first met Ken. Looking back over my notes from that class, one of Ken's greatest strengths is apparent: Ken is neither dogmatic nor static. Thirty years ago, Ken was a Cooper/Modern Technique guy through and through. By the time I met him in the 90's, he'd taken real world experiences -- both his own and those of students, colleagues, etc. -- and adapted his own shooting techniques to meet those real-world realities. In the years since I took my first Hackathorn class, he has changed other things. Unlike so many instructors in the marketplace today, Ken isn't the slightest bit shy about saying he's found a better way to do something.

The class was slower paced and involved a lower round count than is common with many other programs (including my own). But absolutely no one felt like time was wasted, and at the end of each training day we were all worn out. Ken's goal was quality over quantity, and the nature of the drills we did involved a lot of thinking, moving, and acting without firing dozens and dozens of rounds per.

The drills themselves were numerous. While we never did any one drill more than a few times, each segment of the class used a building block approach. So while we only did a particular shooting-on-the-move (SOM) drill two times, we spent about half a day doing various SOM drills of ever-increasing difficulty. The goal, as Ken pointed out, was to teach students what to practice and how to practice on their own. He stressed repeatedly throughout the class the need for students to practice regularly and not rely on taking a class every few months as their sole shooting experience.

In addition to the two daylight sessions, we also had a 2-hour low light training section including a run at clearing a fairly complicated structure. We may have been the last class to enjoy the now-famous Fort Harmar Rifle Club barrel house. The club is apparently spending $20,000 to put in a dedicated ballistic shoot-house.

Day Two included both a lecture/demo on "room clearing" and a chance for each student to run through a live fire scenario in the barrel house. As Grant mentioned, the student was allowed only as many rounds as he could fit in his pistol. When your gun ran dry, you had to rely on the three battlefield pickup guns Ken had left throughout the house. When I came upon the first (a Makarov) I still had more than 10 rounds in my P30 ... so I picked it up, verified it was decocked and in FIRE mode, and put it in a cargo pocket. When I found the second pickup (a Tokarev) I picked it up and put it in my waistband at 11 o'clock. I'd consciously not checked the loaded status of the guns because I didn't want to put my (functional) P30 away to do so in the middle of a room-clearing. But when my P30 went dry and I drew the Tok, I forgot to check it before leaving the room I was in. I came around a corner to engage a threat and only after pulling on the trigger did I realize the hammer was down. I moved back behind cover, racked the slide, and saw a round chamber. I never even bothered to pick up the third gun (a Colt revolver) because I had more guns than I knew what to do with by the end of the exercise.

There were many things I got out of this class, both as a shooter and an instructor.
  • "Ken's Rule Four" which some of the students decided to rename Hackathorn's Law: If you're not confident in your ability to perform a task, you will not even attempt it under stress.
  • A number of great drills that I can steal, like the 12345 drill and Ken's modified version of the FAST.
  • Diagnostic tips for dealing with problematic students.
  • Deep understanding of exactly what my everyday flashlight will do when the battery gets low.

Ken Hackathorn is a trainer that no serious student can afford to leave off his resume. He is someone who has truly been in the practical firearms training "industry" since it began, from his days at API (later "Gunsite"), being a founder of both IPSC and IDPA, to his current status as one of the most sought after and respected trainers of military, law enforcement, and civilians around the world. There is simply no way you can spend two days on a range with Ken Hackathorn without learning new things about shooting, teaching, guns, and tactics.

Ken teaches fewer open-enrollment classes each year. If you don't jump through whatever hoops are necessary to train with him now, you may lose the opportunity forever ... and you will be a lesser man for it.

Last edited by ToddG; 10-26-2009 at 07:41 PM
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