Showing form 4 on request/demand

[Kimbo]

I've been searching but couldn't find anything. I was wondering who can ask to see your form 4? Say for instance if I go to a range can the staff ask to see my form 4? Or would a simple acknowledgment of saying "yes I have a form 4" suffice? I'm sure since it's their range they can do as they please but legally can they request my form 4 and hold it temporarily while I shoot? I'm just worried of showing my form 4 and they take my information down for whatever reason...

[CleverNickname]

Of course they can legally request it. And you can legally refuse. And they can legally tell you you're not welcome in their establishment. There's no law requiring that they look at it and no law requiring that you let them if they ask.

[shooter521]

I've been searching but couldn't find anything. I was wondering who can ask to see your form 4? Say for instance if I go to a range can the staff ask to see my form 4? Or would a simple acknowledgment of saying "yes I have a form 4" suffice? I'm sure since it's their range they can do as they please but legally can they request my form 4 and hold it temporarily while I shoot? I'm just worried of showing my form 4 and they take my information down for whatever reason...

Anyone can ask. Who gets to see it may be something else entirely...

I have always been told that because the Form 4 is nominally a tax return, the information contained therein is privileged, and can/should only be shared with the BATFE.

That said, I wouldn't hesitate to show it to a police officer upon request. Also, if you send your NFA device in for repairs, some SOTs or gunsmiths ask that you send a copy of your form along with it.

I probably would NOT show a copy of my Form to a random range officer. If they're asking me to show proof that MY gun is legal, why aren't they asking everyone else for sales receipts or whatever to make sure their guns are legal? Besides which, most range officers wouldn't even know what they were looking at, or for on an ATF form, or even whether or not the form was valid.

[TY44934]

Anyone can ask. Who gets to see it may be something else entirely...
. . . random range officer. If they're asking me to show proof that MY gun is legal, why aren't they asking everyone else for sales receipts or whatever to make sure their guns are legal? Besides which, most range officers wouldn't even know what they were looking at, or for on an ATF form, or even whether or not the form was valid.

Exactly. Not trying to be combative, but the NFA owning community needs to nip this stuff in the bud.

If asked at a range, tell the Range Officer:

"Sure, I have my paperwork with me, but first, I'll need to see proof that you own your firearms lawfully."

(you will probably get a confused look and maybe a 'huh??'"

Tell the "RO":

"Look, I obey the laws and I give you my word that my NFA items are lawfully owned. You are obviously aware that there are legal ways for civilians like me to own and use suppressors/SBRs. Beyond my word, you do not have any right to ask for proof of that, any more than I have a right to demand you show me some sort of proof that your non-NFA guns are lawfully owned. I'll assume your guns are lawfully owned and I expect the same courtesy from you. If not, then can you give me some reason why you believe my NFA firearms might not be lawfully owned?"

If they persist, offer to dial the BATFE for them & let them use your phone to explain the "problem" they have created.

Seriously, this crap needs to stop.

[SHIVAN]

The NRA HQ Range does this NFA form check BS...or at least they used to...

I haven't been asked the last two times for SBR's, but they always ask for suppressors, and it's not like I am shooting a "maglite" looking can either.

The coup de grace was the range officer looking at my Form 4 intently, then asking me if that was an AAC Cyclone. So I told him it was a YHM Phantom, and he should have known after just looking at the F4.

[rob_s]

Of course they can legally request it. And you can legally refuse. And they can legally tell you you're not welcome in their establishment. There's no law requiring that they look at it and no law requiring that you let them if they ask.

Exactly right.

I have been asked, and produced it when asked. I have also been asked "you have a form for that?" and upon answering in the affirmative they haven't bothered to ask to see it.

[Business_Casual]

I have always been told that because the Form 4 is nominally a tax return, the information contained therein is privileged, and can/should only be shared with the BATFE.

I would caution you to rethink that. Not to mention that it doesn't even apply to an actual tax return, let alone a BATFE form (which isn't).

M_P

[ramrod]

Just make a copy and shrink it down real small then laminate it so old RO's can barely read it.

[erik_]

From the NFA Handbook:

Section 12.1 Maintaining proof of registration. The NFA requires that a person possessing a firearm registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) retain proof of registration which must be made available to the Attorney General, specifically an ATF agent or investigator, upon request. Proof of registration would be on a Form 1 registering a firearm to its maker, Form 2 registering a firearm to an importer or manufacturer, or a Form 3, 4, or 5 showing registration of a firearm to a transferee.

Section 6.4 Approval of Form 1. Non-FFL/SOT’s may seek approval to manufacture an NFA firearm (e.g., short-barreled rifles, short-barreled, shotguns, wallet guns, etc.) via submission of an ATF Form 1. Upon receipt of the completed Form 1, ATF will process the application and, if approved, a tax stamp will be affixed to the original of the form and the approved application will be returned to the applicant. Approval by ATF will effect registration of the firearm to the applicant. Upon receipt of the approved application, the applicant may make the firearm described on the approved Form 1. The approved form must be retained by the applicant and made available at all times for inspection by ATF officers or investigators.

If you run into an ATF agent, you must be able to show proof of legal registration. A photocopy is acceptable. The big question, however, is how they define "investigator" since this likely includes LE, any Federal agent with the power to arrest, and could include other groups as well. Unfortunately I don't know how "investigator" is specifically defined.

[variablebinary]

I always keep a copy.

Though, you better have a badge and the ability to arrest me if you expect to see it.