Great basic Marksmanship training

[Naxet1959]

My son and I attended an Appleseed class this weekend. What an eye opener! Great training, great practice. Very inexpensive and we both came away feeling much more confident in our shooting. Who would ever think that hitting targets 400 meters out would be a normal course of shooting? It was a thrill to see my son routinely qualifying as a sharpshooter and the smile on his face! I highly recommend this course to anyone, especially if you want to spend some quality time with your family AND help them be a confident shooter!

[markm]

I keep hearing good stuff about these shoots. I'm going to have to attend one.

Did you just run ARs?

[Ed L.]

While the marksmanship aspect may be good, a lot of their manipulation aspects is not in keeping with modern practices of running a carbine. They teach using a tight sling that ties up the support arm and doing all loading of magazines into the gun with the strong arm--thus removing the firing grip. To their credit, I don't believe that they hail themselves as teaching modern use of modern style weapons for the battlefield. Their emphasis is on long range marksmanship training and getting America back in touch with their heritage as rifleman.

It's a fun time nonetheless, and a lot of the shooting is done at reduced size targets at 25 yards, where a .22 rifle will suffice. This is great from convenience and cost saving.

[markm]

While the marksmanship aspect may be good, a lot of their manipulation aspects is not in keeping with modern practices of running a carbine. They teach using a tight sling that ties up the support arm and doing all loading of magazines into the gun with the strong arm--thus removing the firing grip. To their credit, I don't believe that they hail themselves as teaching modern use of modern style weapons for the battlefield. Their emphasis is on long range marksmanship training and getting America back in touch with their heritage as rifleman.

That's not too big of an issue.

It's a fun time nonetheless, and a lot of the shooting is done at reduced size targets at 25 yards, where a .22 rifle will suffice. This is great from convenience and cost saving.

That doesn't sound too useful for someone already reasonably proficient at 3 and 4 hundred yards.

[Ed L.]

The idea of the 25 yard range with proportionately reduced targets is for the sake of convenience because there are more locations available that offer 400 yards and there is less time spent walking back and forth to 400 yards. Also it allows use of .22 ammo and rifles for cost saving and greater availability.

The program is designed to allow access to the average person and first time attendee.

Regardless of what the location can accommodate, a good deal of shooting is done at 25 yards.

Just for clarification, I am not in any way affiliated with the Appleseed program. I just attended one time, but I know something about it.

[bkb0000]

i was going to take my wife to one here about three months ago, till i found out it was 25m only. probably still would have been somewhat beneficial for the BRM, but not worth blowing 16 hours out of a weekend.

i guess a local golf course was all they could get to host the shoot.. but the golf course was like 2 miles from one of Oregun's best ranges, furthering the gayness.

it is super cheap- i think it was $75 for two 8 hour days, and the wife was free for not having a dick.

[dbrowne1]

While the marksmanship aspect may be good, a lot of their manipulation aspects is not in keeping with modern practices of running a carbine. They teach using a tight sling that ties up the support arm and doing all loading of magazines into the gun with the strong arm--thus removing the firing grip. To their credit, I don't believe that they hail themselves as teaching modern use of modern style weapons for the battlefield. Their emphasis is on long range marksmanship training and getting America back in touch with their heritage as rifleman.

It's a fun time nonetheless, and a lot of the shooting is done at reduced size targets at 25 yards, where a .22 rifle will suffice. This is great from convenience and cost saving.

I did one of these this past weekend. I only did the first day where they do all of the actual instruction. Its purpose is to teach basic rifle marksmanship, not manipulation and running a carbine. Sometimes people here get stuck in too small of a bubble and think that if it isn't high speed, running a carbine type training, then it's bad. This is a good step back to basics of good marksmanship that will carry over into whatever else you shoot, however you shoot it. You can throw out the sling and whatever else doesn't fit in with your normal techniques. I learned a few little things about body position that improved my prone shooting even without a sling.

It was a good refresher on CMP-type shooting and it was good to refocus on basics of a good shot. I used a 10/22 with tech sights that performed flawlessly. The 25 meter range works fine and you're shooting at some pretty small targets - it's not as easy as it looks. We did the reduded size AQT three times. I shot a rifleman (expert) score on the first two, then blew the last stage on the third one after shooting great on the other three stages. Just fatigued I guess, but it shows that it's not a "gimme" even at "only" 25 meters.

[Telecomtodd]

This Appleseed project may be a good program, but what happened to shooters who should have gone through an NRA program? My club is working with 65 youngsters 10-20 years old and teaching them position shooting (prone, sitting, kneeling, offhand). We also have a Women on Target class where they can learn shooting basics, and then take a formal class if desired.

I'm sure shooting at 300, 400, and 500 yards is fun, but I'd be more interested in seeing people shoot reliably and accurately. Unless they are looking to go to sniper school or interested in long range target shooting, there's no compelling reason to shoot at those distances other than to brag you can do it. Even 25 meters is a bit long; you'll have about 4" of drop with a .22 at that distance, and wind becomes a factor.

In some of the pictures I saw online, I didn't see anyone really coaching - just a rag-tag group of folks with guns trying to hit a target. I could be totally wrong, but while I guess that could simply be a fun shooting day, there's little sense of accomplishment; I'd rather have the accomplishment of having learned something and proven to yourself (and others) that you can indeed shoot well, and shoot well on demand.

Give me any mouth-breather with an IQ over 85 and I'll have him bench-shooting 5 rounds of .22 (with aperture sights) into one hole at 50 feet within 30 minutes. Give me the same mouth-breather with a sling in prone position and I'll have him shooting the same way in another 30 minutes. Give me an AR with aperture sights and another 30 minutes and he'll be doing the same at 50 yards. The real test is if he can come back in a week and do the same thing with only 10 minutes of practice. Can it be done? Hell, I've done it close to 15 times with new shooters this year alone. And yes, I'd love to have Lee Ermey come shoot with us, I might be able to teach that ol' boy to shoot something other than those poor defenseless watermelons at 20 feet!

And women shoot better than men 80% of the time. My own 18 year old daughter, 98 pounds soaking wet, is finishing up her NRA 4P quals after only 6 trips to the range. 10 more targets and she'll finish Expert and begin working on her Distinguished Expert. She's just as good with a service rifle, a shotgun, and her/my Walther P22 pistol, but has found her niche in precision smallbore rifle.

I don't know why this Appleseed program needs long range; a 100 yard range should do the job well, and there's more of those than there are 300-1000 yard ranges, at least out East.

I strongly believe in the theorum that everyone who wants to own a firearm needs simple training on how to shoot it properly and regular practice. This is not a safety class, but an operations class. Any yahoo with a clean record can go buy a long gun, but just shooting in the general direction of a target is like a 40 year old virgin hooking up with a streetwalker - he THINKS he knows what he is doing, but CAN he hit the target reliably and accurately. This ain't a carbine class.

Bring me a former Boy Scout who qualified in my rifle merit badge class and I'll show you a PFC or butter bar who earned his marksmanship badge early.

[bkb0000]

damn, telecom- that was a hell of a lot of writing for nothing said.

the applesead's purpose is to teach traditional BRM... long shots with irons. that's traditionally how americans have trained, and it's worked really well for us in the past. i'm sure you've read just as many accounts of American infantrymen picking off targets at extended ranges, thereby keeping the enemy from even getting within their own effective range, as i have. just because our current military operations don't call for extended open sight shooting doesn't mean it isn't a valuable skill to have.

[Telecomtodd]

C'mon out to our range and let's see how well we can all shoot. Short enough?