Piston or Gas?

[dmanflynn]

Im not new to firearms but new to the AR, which brings me to my question. What are the pros of a straight gas tube system versus the gas piston system? I know the straight gas is dirtier while the piston is cleaner, but thats about it, i have no experience with the pistons. Is their really a difference in accuracy, or realiability? or is it just a matter of preference? Im building my first AR and havnt bought an upper so help me out here

[markm]

Pistons are way too problematic. They're a solution to a problem that's really been exagerated big time.

[LOKNLOD]

If you have to ask....then standard gas. I wouldn't look into the piston until I was familiar enough with the system to understand why, how, and "if" i might benefit from it. Plus as markm said there are still a lot of different versions and bugs to be worked out. If you're building your first AR, then go gas, and a piston version might make a great 4th or 5th AR for your collection.

[dmanflynn]

Originally Posted by markm

Pistons are way too problematic. They're a solution to a problem that's really been exagerated big time.

So there's no real reason to buy a piston upper? For my first anyway? If you would please state the common problems they cause. I honestly don't know.

[Rosco P]

LWRC, LMT pistons are not so problematic as people may believe. They are GTG.

The only problem is the $ in most people's minds.

Gas and Piston both work. I prefer piston for the ease of maintenance and because you won't cook off all your lube running a whole lot of rounds through.

I have both, would grab either one for SHTF

[decodeddiesel]

Pistons are a fad, and a solution looking for a problem IMHO. Most of them are under developed, poorly implemented, and offer little or no benefits over a DI gun. Nothing wrong at all with a well made, correctly setup, properly maintained DI AR.

*This is coming from a 2 tour Iraqi War veteran who placed his in the hands of a DI Colt M4 day in and day out.*

[markm]

I don't follow the pistons very closely because I find them to be total nonsense.... but....

Almost every one of them has been problematic in one way or another. Pistons breaking/seizing is one of the problems I've seen. Another common problem is "carrier tilt". See, pistons have been forced into a platform that was meant for direct gas. Thus most pistons drive the top of the carrier and push the bottom of the carrier in to the receiver extension. This beats the crap out of the gun.

HKs piston appears to be the best of a silly idea. But i've read at least two account of problems with that design too.

[Ttwwaack]

Being an owner of both, gas.

If it is your first AR style platform build, go with a quality gas build. Don't skimp, do it once, do it right and forget about it. When it comes to resale, someone who knows what quality is will always pony up.

I've been interested in the midlength style for awhile and it will be added to the stable.

[EzGoingKev]

It would depend on a couple of things - intended use and budget.

If you are going to shoot it at the range once in a while and let it sit around as a SHTF rifle then a DI rifle would be fine. If you are shooting a silenced SBR in the desert then a piston rifle might be what you need.

I don't buy all the "solution looking for a problem" comments. Obviously issues arose with the DI setup when it was used in a certain environment/configuration. Just because it works great for you doesn't mean it works great for everybody/everywhere.

If funds are not a determining factor and a piston set up makes you happy then by all means buy a piston rifle. After all, this is America and if you want it and can afford it then get it.

If you are going to go the piston route, I would suggest buying a piston rifle from LWRC, POF, or LMT. They have had their piston setups out a while and have worked out the bugs.

[Shotdown]

The "carrier tilt" problem has kept me from going the piston route for now. I've seen some people post pics of the damage done to the BCG because of it.

[Thomas M-4]

I am not going to put a Honda engine in my Porsche just because I want more m.p.g
just my $.02

[jp0319]

ok here's my .02 I see benefits with both designs. I just put an LWRC M6A2 on layaway as someone mentiones earlier LWRC and LMT seem to be the best examples of the piston breed. I am aware of the carrier tilt issue but I also researched the customer service of LWRC incase this becomes an issue and am told they really stand behind their products. That being said I plan on making the LWRC into an SBR later, which in my opinion will bring the piston benefits to bear. But DI guns have proven themselves reliable if treated correctly, I've carried M4 / M16 platform in every conceivable environment over my 15 years in the Army and have never had an issue but I am a OCD cleaner of all my guns.

I think both have merit but it depends on what your needs are Money can be a factor my Colt 6721 was $1500 the LWRC M6A2 is $2500, thats a lot of money to sink into goodies, optics etc.

[Thomas M-4]

I am just curious what has LWRC done for the bolt carrier tilt issue?

[FiveStar]

edit edit

[jp0319]

Originally Posted by Thomas M-4

I am just curious what has LWRC done for the bolt carrier tilt issue?

I really don't know, in my reading on the subject it seems to be a problem that is not present in all carbines. Some LWRC ownes say they have fired thousands of rounds with no visible signes of tilt. Some say they have had tilt signs show after a few hundred rounds. I am a bit puzzled on it my self, I just hope mine is gtg. We'll see I guess.

[No Bananas]

Isn't threre a guy on this forum whose made a buffer to address the tilt issue? I think he's trying to tool up to sell them if I recall correctly. Anybody?

[The_War_Wagon]

Having owned AR's for 18 years now (PWA, Colt, Olympic, DoubleStar & S&W), I took the plunge LAST year, and bought my first piston gun - a POF-415. Because I was already QUITE familiar with the platform through several different makes, I knew what I was looking for in a piston gun, quality wise.

It may just be, that it's the highest QUALITY firearm I've ever owned, but I LOVE my POF. It's accuracy is due to the quality of parts in it, though - NOT because it's piston-driven.

A marksman can make a GOOD rifle in either configuration DO what he needs it to do. And a GOOD QUALITY gas rifle, will perform better than a poor quality piston rifle.

As others have suggested, I'd get a GOOD gas gun first - learn the eccentricities of the breed, as it were - and then see if you still need or even WANT a piston gun thereafter. Even if money is no object, and you're worried about the OBAMANATION'S forthcoming bans , and you want to get one of each, I'd still set the piston rifle aside, until the gas rifle was mastered.

My $.02, as an owner of both.

[getchevyn]

Why not have both?

Get a LMT MRP piston. Then get a MRP DI gas barrel for $300. Add a BCG if you don't have one already. Change the piston to a gas system in 2 minutes.

[Sttrongbow]

Originally Posted by Shotdown

The "carrier tilt" problem has kept me from going the piston route for now. I've seen some people post pics of the damage done to the BCG because of it.

I'm curious about this issue. I hear a lot about carrier tilt, but I've never heard of a failure or stoppage supposedly caused by it.

Pat Rogers beat the heck out a few LWRC M6's... maybe he can chime in and comment on if "carrier tilt" was problem?

[Gutshot John]

Gas.

I wanted to like the piston systems, but after shooting one for two days at a Rogers class, I was completely underwhelmed.

The AR DI system functions just fine if you keep it lubed.