My year with Pmags

Triad Tactical · #1 01-28-2009, 01:16 PM

My year with Pmags.
In the fall of 2007, I was involved in a program that purchaed 50 black pmags from Brownells for a 2007-2008 patrol rifle program. All of them arrived in short order and I found they were all post-recall manufacture. The rifle program was to involve about 400 shooters, each shooting just fewer than 500 rounds during the two day class. Course of fire was simple, adhering to the lowest common shooter theory. No full auto fire, no string of fire longer that 7 rounds rapid fire (NSR). Classes consisted of 12-16 shooters, in two relays. Each shooter was given three pmags at the start of the course. Pretty straight forward stuff, load/unload/reload/stoppages etc, we did nothing that would surprise you.

By the end of the first class, 50% of the pmags were broken. All of them had split where the feed lips meet to form a V on the spine. I called Magpul and they over nighted me 50 new pmags and a prepaid return label for all 50 of the ones I had, broken or not. They asked me a bunch of questions about the who, what, when, where and how the mags had been used. This was very cool and I was pleased with the way it was handled. I was back on track and had one course of 26 in the books, 25 to go.

During the next few courses, I was constantly checking mags, and was finding a few more that were split each day. After several weeks, maybe 3-4 courses, about 50% of the pmags were broken. The split was very easy to see if the mag had more that 3-4 rounds in it, if not, just pushing my thumbs against the feed lips would cause it to show. I called Magpul back and the same overnight exchange was made and a few more questions answered about how they were being used. They told me that there had been some changes made to material flowed into the mould, the new mags should be good to go.

After about another months worth of classes, I had a pile of split mags set aside. Not 50% like before, more like 25% out of the third batch of 50 (batch #2 straight from Magpul). This time they replaced just the damaged mags, they no longer wanted the undamaged mags back. This process was repeated one more time at the end of the training cycle. After two month off from PR training, we started again with the 2008-2009 training cycle, which was a one day refresher course. After the first two month of training, we again had to replace about 20-25% of the pmags (just the mag bodies this time). The 08-09 cycle is still in process at this time, with the Pmags.

The split was easy to spot, either a mag split right away or not at all. I started numbering the mags and tracking them when magpul sent me the first batch overnight. We found that a split mag could still be used, up to the point that it started to double feed rounds. Once the split started, the mags would not drop free, loaded or not. Its good to know that the split is easy to spot, and they tend to split right away if they are going to.

I am not here to condemn a $15.00 product, it is what it is. I am just sharing some info that lead me to the decision, once again, that there is no magic bullet, or magazine.

This thread requires some photos:

Kaos · #2 01-28-2009, 01:22 PM

weird....the splits are all in the same spot/same shape.

None of mine have done that in a year+. I've had many range sessions with them but obviously dont have a large sample like yours to draw info from.

markm · #3 01-28-2009, 01:27 PM

Don't the The_Katar see this. He was concerned about those who completely dumped their USGI stash for 100% Pmaggery.

Kaos · #4 01-28-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

Don't the The_Katar see this. He was concerned about those who completely dumped their USGI stash for 100% Pmaggery.

Still got enough of both

GaryXD · #5 01-28-2009, 01:31 PM

I need to check my PMAGs.

YVK · #6 01-28-2009, 01:35 PM

Steve, I've had the same thing happen with one of my 2007 PMAGs. Since it was statistically insignificant sample, I neither posted about it nor contacted Magpul. It was a low round count magazine, but it had been kept loaded and exposed to a wide range of temperatures. Interestingly, the crack didn't affect the function. I found it during maintenance.

ToddG · #7 01-28-2009, 01:44 PM

Just speculation on my part:

Given that the break is in the exact same place and appears to be caused by a pretty consistently delivered force, and given that it happened to an unusually high percentage of your mags, and given that is happened with multiple generations of the mags ...

Is it possible that some (or all) of the guns are playing a role? Either something is out of spec in the mag well or some part of the gun involved in stripping and feeding rounds into the chamber?

Have you done anything to identify which guns are producing the broken mags?

Magsz · #8 01-28-2009, 01:57 PM

What temperature were these being used in?

Its kind of interesting to see the same failure point in all of those magazines.

markm · #9 01-28-2009, 01:59 PM

I hope he doesn't say his agency guns are DPMS.

Parabellum9x19mm · #10 01-28-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

Don't the The_Katar see this. He was concerned about those who completely dumped their USGI stash for 100% Pmaggery.

never understood the people who "transitioned" from USGI over to PMags. an agency or department is one thing, but for a private individual to ever sell working magazines for a weapon system they still use never made sense to me.

i like having a healthy supply of Lancers, USGI and PMags.

speaking of PMags, my back-order on PMags is shipping from Brownells today. even getting some 20 round PMags that i've wanted for so long. oh happy happy happy times.

ZDL · #11 01-28-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddG

Just speculation on my part:

Given that the break is in the exact same place and appears to be caused by a pretty consistently delivered force, and given that it happened to an unusually high percentage of your mags, and given that is happened with multiple generations of the mags ...

Is it possible that some (or all) of the guns are playing a role? Either something is out of spec in the mag well or some part of the gun involved in stripping and feeding rounds into the chamber?

Have you done anything to identify which guns are producing the broken mags?

Agree. After you change the battery in your car 3 times in 1 month... It's time to look elsewhere for the reason your car won't start.

Very strange indeed. I'm interested in the outcome of this.

AirTrafficControl · #12 01-28-2009, 02:24 PM

I'm just going to have a seat and enjoy some popcorn on this thread.

rob_s · #13 01-28-2009, 02:29 PM

Also curious about make/model of rifles, unless I missed it.

SERT103 · #14 01-28-2009, 02:34 PM

This is the second Pmag that I have had crack in the exact same spot. The first one I had crack was during a SWAT school in NC a year ago. During day two I noticed that the top right round would just pop out the top. Upon inspection is when I noticed the crack. The mags were brand new, never loaded before the class. Despite the crack, I continued to use the mag to see if it would ever make the gun malfunction which it never did. I called magpul and of course they made it right!

So here we are a year later, I was shooting at the NRA range and laid my mag down on the table and again...the top round goes shooting across the table. I think to myself...not again! Upon inspection this one is cracked too. I shot the loaded rounds out of it and no malfunctions. I do not store my mags loaded and they are kept inside my safe. Both mags were manufactured in 10/07 and were windowed versions. I called magpul again and like always customer service is excellent and they are sending me a replacement. When I told him the date code he stated that that wasn't the first time that that date code has come up. Unfortunately, 6 out of the 7 pmags that I own are date coded 10/07.

ETA: The mag that split in NC, was my duty 6920. The one that split at the NRA was my factory complete LMT 16"

ETA2: Mags were never dropped on the feedlips and never beaten.

ETA3: When I spoke to magpul, they stated it was a problem in the molding process that has caused this.

taliv · #15 01-28-2009, 02:42 PM

guys, mags are a wear item. as I've reported before, last year, i used 10 D&H from bravoco and 10 pmags all year. i had 2 of the pmags develop cracks exactly like the ones in this thread, and 3 of the D&H mags either bend feed lips or have welds on the spine let go.

obviously my sample size is smaller, but the point is, my pmags are holding up as well or better than quality aluminum mags.

if you use them hard, particularly if you practice speed reloads with at least partially loaded mags, they wear out. they're 15 freakin dollars. buy a lifetime supply.
you'd be crazy to think they'll last forever

bully for magpul for replacing them. (they replaced mine two well) but i wouldn't think less of them if they didn't. it'd be like goodyear replacing my tires after 30k miles.

Failure2Stop · #16 01-28-2009, 02:43 PM

Steve thanks for the info.

I am also curious about the guns involved in the course and if you think that there could be any correlation. Were breakages evenly spead among all weapons or were there greater breakages with particular students/guns?

What was the ground type?

Is it possible to share the date stamp, or is there concern that it could cause a deluge of needless returns to MagPul? Are all the broken mags from the same date stamp? Were other date stamps present in the sample?

Cheers.

1SFG · #17 01-28-2009, 02:46 PM

I've seen a lot of mags go down in my time, but don't know that I've ever seen a significant number break in exactly the same place. That's pretty interesting. As others have stated, would love to know if any effort has been made to determine whether something in the rifle is partially responsible, or if this is just a high stress area that's bad in a particular batch. Definitely keep us updated.

bmg · #18 01-28-2009, 03:03 PM

Any chance this is due to partially loaded mags being dropped onto a concrete floor or other hard surface?

Iraqgunz · #19 01-28-2009, 03:07 PM

Para,

So when did you order your mags? Mine have been B/O since 01 DEC 08.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parabellum9x19mm

never understood the people who "transitioned" from USGI over to PMags. an agency or department is one thing, but for a private individual to ever sell working magazines for a weapon system they still use never made sense to me.

i like having a healthy supply of Lancers, USGI and PMags.

speaking of PMags, my back-order on PMags is shipping from Brownells today. even getting some 20 round PMags that i've wanted for so long. oh happy happy happy times.

Parabellum9x19mm · #20 01-28-2009, 03:15 PM

i hate to tell you this but 02 JAN 2009.

the thing is, they called me saying my CC declined, because i must have entered the numbers wrong, so i gave the lady the correct numbers and it went thru.

i asked if they were shipping out today or the next day and she said yes. maybe my screw up somehow caused me to line-jump or something? i'm not sure.