AAR Vickers Tactical Pistol I 6-7 Sept 08

[Templar]

I'll let others post their impressions, I'll just put some of the pics and vids that I took today up, then I'm crashing.

TD1:

[Templar]

[Leonidas]

Looks like a fun class as always, can't wait until my next one.

[VA_Dinger]

I thoroughly enjoyed the entire weekend. Even with the hurricane on Saturday I had a great time. Everybody was friendly, eager to learn, and motivated. That makes all the difference in the world.

Great class & great group of guys.

[30 cal slut]

i really enjoyed this class. thanks again to LAV and Dave Pennington and Paul.

was good to see the m4c "regulars" but there were plenty of new faces. was surprised to see New Jersey/ Pennsylvania well-represented (at least a half dozen guys).

i decided to take a break from obsessing about every little nuance of the class in terms of note taking and concentrated on just running the drills. of course, i had the luxury of taking prior LAV classes to do this. i found this fairly helpful in terms of the class flow (note taking requires interruption).

here's just a brief outline of the drills completed ... if i missed any (John Wayne probably has this syllabus down by memory so he'll have some nits) please let me know since i was kind of in a fog sat morn (got about 1.5 hours of sleep before the class). i'll have more comprehensive notes for class participants and will send via e-mail if i ever get my shit together. just use these as a reminder to jog your brain if you are writing up your notes.

theme: hit your effin target. proper trigger pull is the most important skill to develop, everything else is secondary.

Day 1
Start Time 10:00 a.m.

1. Dry fire trigger control with empty case or coin on front sight (requires partner)

2. Trigger reset drill (requires partner to rack slide)

3. Slow fire ball & dummy (partner drill)

4. Command ball & dummy (partner drill)

5. Timed ball & dummy (partner drill)

6. Wobble zone demonstration (using 3 fingers as front sight)

7. Concept of follow-through, scan & assess

8. "Don't call it a walkback" to ~100 yards

(break for lunch)

9. Draw from the holster

10. Emergency reload

11. Slow-fire "bullseye" drill at various ranges

12. Emergency reload drill on steel plates (competitive drill)

13. Static turns

Day 2
Start Time 9 a.m.

1. Slow fire ball and dummy (partner drill)

2. Command ball and dummy (partner drill)

3. Timed ball and dummy (partner drill)

4. Bullseye drill

5. "Don't call it a walkback" to 100 yards

(break for lunch)

6. Malfunction drill - tap, rack, bang.

7. Malfunction drill - TRP + "rip drill"

8. Shoooting on the move (forward and reverse)

9. Box drill

10. effing figure 8 drill - individual

11. frickin figure 8 drill - team relay

12. bullseye @ 25 yards.

[30 cal slut]

and there were more larry-isms to add to the colorful lexicon.

i'll start with this one:

Originally Posted by Larry Vickers

If you think [insert grossly incorrect notion here], then you need a piss test.

[30 cal slut]

oh yeah, there is no such thing as a dedicated "walkback" gun.

using a gun that is different from what you've been shooting through the class is ... counterproductive.

[gmark340]

A good group of shooters and a great class! Larry's focus on some of the fundamental elements really helped my shooting.

[d90king]

Really a great class and a great group of guys. The class left you with some great drills to utilize during your regular training at home. God knows I REALLY need it. Larry should starts doing comedy on the side because he is a funny guy at everyones expense equally. I look forward to more classes in the future.

[USPcompact]

Absolutely a great class. This was my first LAV class, and this class exceeded whatever expectations I had going in. I can't say enough about how well executed and well run this class was. Everything being taught was done so for a very specific purpose, and every round sent downrange was done so with a very specific intent. The round count wasn't exceedingly high, but at the end of each day I was just mentally spent.

[30 cal slut]

Originally Posted by USPcompact

The round count wasn't exceedingly high, but at the end of each day I was just mentally spent.

Totally agree. I was complete junk by the end of the walk-back drill on day 2. It showed at the end.

[lindertw]

Originally Posted by USPcompact

...the round count wasn't exceedingly high, but at the end of each day I was just mentally spent....

yep, my tail is still dragging... I started to clean up my gear and put it away this afternoon and at quick glance my round count was between 357-387 rounds; it sure seemed like much more!

[Heavy Metal]

Another fun-filled LAV class.

In addition to the mystery AI, Paul got to earn his AI street cred this weekend.

Way to go Paul!

[ron556]

as with the other courses i have taken w/ LAV, it was time + money very well spent. excellent drills to work the fundamentals [which i seem to continuously need]. thanks to larry, DP + paul. quality crew + quality classmates. good stuff was learned by all.

even though saturday am was basically a suck weather-wise, i was impressed [and surprised] at the packed turnout. both DP + LAV made the point that one never chooses the conditions in which one has to fight; it is a combat pistol class, so suck it the f**k up and train. truer words have rarely been spoken. i still don't think the clay is coming out of my pants, though.

good to see the regulars + great to meet new students. everyone pretty much stayed switched on despite the weather and there was a lot of good info. the round count was not as high as i was expecting, but i still felt pretty spent at the end of both training days and was very satisfied with what i learned. assloads of lead downrange does not necessarily translate to quality training. the round count doesn't really tell the story, but suffice to say i learned a shit-ton. likewise, i learned some new [to me] drills to aid in practice time. like any good training class, this one helped me sharpen up some skills that were lacking and really turned the microscope on to the shit that i need to practice, which is always a plus.

i was a little concerned about the number of students, as the roster was pretty much overloaded… but having 3 instructors alleviated that for the most part and i didn't feel like i was lacking any attention from the instructors… particularly when someone was yelling at you for short-bussing and/or an instructor helping you out with mechanics or how to run a drill, etc.

good show, gents. thanks again to the VT team for another great class. i look forward to the next one with my "smackum roo-guh." btw, in keeping with larry-isms, one of my personal favorites [pretty sure i'm paraphrasing + it was not said by LAV, it was noted by a fellow classmate]:

"…while the FBI has its "bin laden" unit, the ACLU has it's "vickers" unit."

that's some quality shit.

[DZL HOG]

I had a great time as well guys and gal. Ill give her props even tho I know shes not on these boards. She definitely kicked my azz several times when the pressure was on. So that shows that not all LEO shoot poorly.

I learned a lot of things in training this weekend. Mostly I learned that I suck just alil worse than I thought I did. Now I have an idea how to properly train and practice at home, so maybe Ill get better for the next class or a real world situation. I'm not too disappointed in myself at my performance as a first time class participant and probly the youngest in the class. My mind and nerves were really shot to hell by the end of the class. I finally started to calm down some late last night.

The "Distance Elimination Challenge on Steel" (walk back drill) really kicked my azz. I definitely will practice on distance shooting and dealing with the wobble. I find it really impressive at the guys who can go all the way and still ring the steel one handed.

Larry and the AIs do a great job of explaining things where they are easily understood, and in a good manner. The humorous portions of the class just make it that much more fun. I never thought something so serious would be so much fun.

Round count for me was around 340 best I can tell. I know I lost some rounds in the mud doing malf drills and stuff. I also picked up a couple rounds that had "setback" to where I wouldnt use them.
Day 1 with the XD"Bubba gun" 150rds
Day 2 with the CZ 190rds. Really need to work on my first shot DA, they suuucked.

Hope everyone had a safe trip home, hope to see you next time I can make a class.

[m4fun]

Great Class, as always. Every class seems to have more short-bus folks than the last.

LAV, Dave P. and Paul - thanks! I am always picking up new stuff or get the opportunity to really see what I need to start reinforcing (to get it right)

How the heck was my G19 so much better in the storm on the walkback Saturday than my 92FS Vertec on the nice sunny Sunday? Must have been the breakdown of the end-user.

Thanks also to ToddG for brining is M&P9 trial gun out. It is always a pleasure to fire someone elses gun with someone elses ammo!

Great seeing the regulars - Heavy Metal, .30 Slut, Ron556, JohnWayne, and Templar. Also lots of good new "like minded" individuals. Sorry the Gal didn't wear shorts the second day.

[gotm4]

Originally Posted by 30 cal slut

oh yeah, there is no such thing as a dedicated "walkback" gun.

using a gun that is different from what you've been shooting through the class is ... counterproductive.

I had that exact problem during the 2008 mods/staff class, hadn't shot a Glock much at all maybe 200 rounds in the last 8 months and then took my G17 to class. I did win the 'paper-target' match at class (won a couple PMAGs), but didn't do as well on the walkbacks. I have no idea where my G17 hits at 100yds and beyond using Warren sights.....DOH! (this is why I carry a SBR in my vehicle! )
I was used to shooting a M&P9, STI 2011 and a SA 1911 and it showed.

[30 cal slut]

the very first walkback drill i did was in LAV's Feb. 08 carbine/pistol I class.

that drill has haunted me to the extent that not too long ago i ordered some steel and started practicing on it at distance (25-100 yds).

at the range, people look at me like i have 3 heads. not that i give a $hit.

[Leonidas]

Did anyone offer to give LAV a hug on the last day?

[d90king]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Did anyone offer to give LAV a hug on the last day?

That would have been fun to watch.