So You Want To Buy A HK91/G3 Rifle...

[armakraut]

PTR "GI" rifles supposedly have the correct number of flutes and the right contour now. They still lack the grenade ring on the triple frame and the paddle release, which only the early HK and CETME imports had.

My earlier production JLD/PTR fed everything well and I've read that the early CETME's didn't even have flutes, but were put in some time during the model C run. PTR's other US parts (the fire control group and navy housing) are universally well regarded in quality. The receiver is made on FMP semi-auto tooling and is the only in-spec G3 receiver on the market.

The BATFE changed their mind and banned all MKE carbines from import (no 9mm, 5.56 or 7.62), the pistols will continue to be imported. MKE pistols and carbines started life as military spec weapons (possibly used in some cases) and were modified before import.

Century rifles usually have two problems (or a combination of two problems), US barrels and improperly set barrels. They try to fix the latter in the build process by doing everything except the only thing that will actually correct the problem they created (IE putting the barrel in correctly). They ship a lot of rifles with next to no bolt gap, bad barrels, the wrong size rollers, crap receivers, or improperly ground bolts. Fixable? Errr, sort of. Sometimes a competent gunsmith can fix them, and sometimes the smith will tell you they're going to beat the pavement with your wondermonkey rifle. The HK33's century rebuilt seem to have been on average much more serviceable than all the good G3 and CETME kits they butchered.

Oh yeah, one last thing with the century guns, the sights are regularly crooked, reaaally crooked, unadjustably crooked. In short, I've never known anybody who ever got a working century CETME, but I don't know too many people stupid enough to buy one either.

I love the G3, it makes the AK look overly compex. Godless teutonic killing machine.

[TOrrock]

Excellent thread, thanks Steyr.

Love that pic of Col. Hoare, Armakraut.

[TOrrock]

This is an example of an HK Contract Rifle....

Springfield Armory SAR-3/8 that was built in Greece by Hellenic Arms on HK tooling. The original preban Springfield G3 type rifles were marked G3 (very rare), SAR-3 and when the import ban hit in 1989, the remaining rifles in the country but still in the bonded warehouse were overstamped with an 8, so as to allow the sale of the banned "SAR-3".

This is a rifle that I purchased originally in 1990. Back then, Springfield could sell the SAR-3/8 with a thumbhole stock, and muzzle nut over the threaded muzzle, AND then advertised an "accurizing kit" that included the original buttstock, pistol grip, and flash suppressor. There was nothing in the executive order that said you couldn't refit those items to the rifle. Mitchell Arms did the same thing with their Yugoslavian AK's. Times were different as were the regulations.

















I'm very much with SteyrAUG on this, buy a preban Kraut HK91, Greek Springfield Armory SAR-3, SAR-3/8, or SAR-8 (make sure it's a Greek stamped steel receiver, avoid the aluminum receiver with the integral rail), or Portuguese G3S or XG3S.

A build by a known HK centric smith on a HK contract receiver with an excellent parts kit is worth owning if you can save some money on it.

I still don't trust the JLD/PTR rifles as a whole, but if their line is improving with the new G3 GI rifle, which can be had for just under $1K, then that would be a great option.

[The_War_Wagon]

Great article! I had both a pre-ban HK91, and later a 911 post-ban import back in the day - wish I had BOTH back.

I have a late JLD gun, which I bought new, but dumb-lucked into just because of WHEN I bought it. It has the better barrel, and honestly, I can't tell the difference between it and my old HK's, performance-wise. The aluminum forend is an interesting development, but I'd still rather have the wide HK forend with factory bipod.

[SteyrAUG]

Some cool pics of German soldiers with their early German G3s.





Note the CETME style rear sight on these early series HK rifles.

And if you are interested in the early evolution of the HK semi auto rifles into this country, see this topic.

The HK G3 Semi Auto Rifle...

[TOrrock]

Steyr, if you have any of the Portuguese imports, it would be helpful if you could take some pictures of the markings so people know what they're looking at.

[armakraut]

http://gastatic.com/UserImages/10898...wm_2624550.jpg

Will be marked on the right side of the receiver INDEP PORTUGAL, or MANUFACTURED BY INDEP PORTUGAL.

[SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS]

This is an example of an HK Contract Rifle....

Springfield Armory SAR-3/8 that was built in Greece by Hellenic Arms on HK tooling. The original preban Springfield G3 type rifles were marked G3 (very rare), SAR-3 and when the import ban hit in 1989, the remaining rifles in the country but still in the bonded warehouse were overstamped with an 8, so as to allow the sale of the banned "SAR-3".

This is a rifle that I purchased originally in 1990. Back then, Springfield could sell the SAR-3/8 with a thumbhole stock, and muzzle nut over the threaded muzzle, AND then advertised an "accurizing kit" that included the original buttstock, pistol grip, and flash suppressor. There was nothing in the executive order that said you couldn't refit those items to the rifle. Mitchell Arms did the same thing with their Yugoslavian AK's. Times were different as were the regulations.

















I'm very much with SteyrAUG on this, buy a preban Kraut HK91, Greek Springfield Armory SAR-3, SAR-3/8, or SAR-8 (make sure it's a Greek stamped steel receiver, avoid the aluminum receiver with the integral rail), or Portuguese G3S or XG3S.

A build by a known HK centric smith on a HK contract receiver with an excellent parts kit is worth owning if you can save some money on it.

I still don't trust the JLD/PTR rifles as a whole, but if their line is improving with the new G3 GI rifle, which can be had for just under $1K, then that would be a great option.

I'm torn between going for an original German hk91, the Greek sar, or the ptr 91 GI. Pretty significant differences in condition and price out there. I found some decent late 70's HK91's going for low 2k range and some early 80's versions with some wear for the same price. Problem with the Greek stuff is I have no idea how old they are but some of them appear to be almost new. Are the SAR barrels threaded under that ridiculous fake hider or do I need a good smith to bring them into their original configuration? Are the fake hiders pinned on and can the stock/grip be removed? I would like it as true to the original as possible which is what keeps me from going for the PTR in the first place. What is the PTR missing that the originals have? And did any models except the factory or converted machine guns have the paddle release? Every original hk91 I've seen for sale doesn't seem to have the paddle. If PTR actually made it true to spec I would not hesitate.

[Thomas M-4]

Oreaopla

I am just building mine.
So far I have a new FMP CHF barrel.
New HK trunnion
New HK cocking tube
Anti rattle paddle release
Like new HK BCG with tungsten weights in the carrier
New HK recoil assemble
New HK steel weld on shell deflector.
I still have a ways to go but when I am through it will have all the newest HK G3 updates with a CHF barrel.

[SteyrAUG]

Are the fake hiders pinned on and can the stock/grip be removed? I would like it as true to the original as possible which is what keeps me from going for the PTR in the first place. What is the PTR missing that the originals have? And did any models except the factory or converted machine guns have the paddle release? Every original hk91 I've seen for sale doesn't seem to have the paddle. If PTR actually made it true to spec I would not hesitate.

The fake flash hider is pressed on. It is a pain to correct. One of the best solutions is the faux 91k where a correct flash hider is permanently attached to a shortened barrel.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.co...esmithhk.shtml

The thumbhole stock is removed as simply as a standard stock.

None of the early imports had a paddle magazine release. You will either have to have one gunsmith installed or opt for something like the Tac Latch.

http://www.taclatch.com/