Win Ranger Bonded 9 mm and .40

[RWK]

The testing results, above, certainly begs the question: "Why did the FBI choose the Q4355/RA40B (exact same ammo per Paul Novak of Winchester)?

I have to question this a bit because the Q4364 (9mm 147-gr) is very different from the RA9B. In comparing the samples I have of each, the projectiles are completely different between the two and the Q4364 is effectively a +P, although the cases aren't stamped as such.

[ToddG]

RA40B was changed across the board to Q4355, the latter being developed specifically for the FBI test.

And unless you can provide some pressure data showing otherwise, it's highly unlikely that Winchester is producing +p pressure ammo and putting it in a non-+p case. This would violate SAAMI, and the FBI ammo procurement specifically required that all submissions conform to SAAMI specifications.

[RWK]

And unless you can provide some pressure data showing otherwise, it's highly unlikely that Winchester is producing +p pressure ammo and putting it in a non-+p case.

I don't have pressure data but, I did call Winchester on it because the boxes are labeled as +P but, the cases are not stamped +P. I was told that the boxes were indeed labeled by Winchester, that the +P rating is correct even though the cases weren't stamped as such. Mixed signals from Winchester? Maybe. I did the Google and discovered that there seems to be a bit of a dust-up over some "ZQ4364" that was let into the wild by Winchester. Some talk about it being "contract" ammo that is made to a different spec.

[DeltaKilo]

Doc, have you had a chance to run any .45 ACP of the Winchester Ranger Bonded through any tests?

[ToddG]

I don't have pressure data but, I did call Winchester on it because the boxes are labeled as +P but, the cases are not stamped +P.

I stand corrected, then! Depending on whom you ask, some manufacturers always use +p brass it just might not always be marked +p, so I wouldn't immediately be concerned that there is a problem with the ammo in question. And if it's marked and marketed as +p, that's a clue. Again, my bad ... thanks for the info!

[Marcus L.]

The more tests I see, the more I'm thinking about going back to standard Ranger Talons and Federal HST.

[rsilvers]

So what is this new PDX1 ammo. Is it as good as the best LE ammo? Same bullet? Same speed? Sealed primers?

[Jim from Houston]

According to Winchester, PDX1 is the same round that you see tested on this page. In other words, the same as the "revised" Ranger Bonded that was adopted by the FBI. I would want to see more testing before using it, given the troubling performance that the .40 shows in Doc's denim test posted above.

[Glock17JHP]

The more tests I see, the more I'm thinking about going back to standard Ranger Talons and Federal HST.

Agree, Marcus!!! I never left them...

[BuckskinJoe]

I have to question this a bit because the Q4364 (9mm 147-gr) is very different from the RA9B. In comparing the samples I have of each, the projectiles are completely different between the two and the Q4364 is effectively a +P, although the cases aren't stamped as such.

I spoke with Paul Novak, Sr. Tech. Spc. at the Winchester plant in East Alton, IL, via telephone, right after he returned from the Shot Show. He told me, very specifically, that Q4355 and current RA40B are exactly the same ammunition, with the Q4355 designation being used for Winchester's Federal Government contracts. If that is not correct, then Mr. Novak misinformed me.

I did not ask, and he did not speak to Q4364 vs. RA9B.