Flinching with both pistol and rifle

[LMT Shooter]

Prof, there was some good advice here, have you been able to try any of it yet? If so, did it help?

[VARIABLE9]

Breathe.

Google ‘respiratory pause shooting’.

[BuzzinSATX]

Prof, there was some good advice here, have you been able to try any of it yet? If so, did it help?

Absolutely!^^^^^^

Remember that people generally flinch for two reasons, immediately after surprise and/or pain. In shooting (or other activities where we anticipate either, we unintentionally induce the response. So when someone is new to shooting, it’s important to understand this and proactively take steps to mitigate the action.

Three things I do when introducing new shooters to firearms:

1. Dry fire every weapon a dozen or more times at the range immediately prior to live fire

2. I have them wear BOTH earplugs AND muffs

3. Always shoot at least 100 rounds of .22LR, typically start with my Ruger 22-45 then SR22

Seems to help take the flinch out as it helps the brain understand that shooting does not hurt the body (assuming you do things in a safe manner and are on the right side of the muzzle )

Also, something I also do immediately prior to their shooting their first 9MM round is I have them hold the UNLOADED pistol (we check it twice to ensure it’s unloaded) pointing down range as if shooting, and close their eyes. I then randomly smack the muzzle end of the firearm with the heel of my palm pretty hard to simulate recoil. I then ask them “...did I hurt you?” We repeat this drill several times, a bit harder each time until I’m smacking the gun harder than any 10MM round. When they realize and wrap their heads around the fact by feel that there is no pain involved, it really helps.

Hard to do by yourself, I know, but by aiming the gun, closing your eyes and focusing on “feeling the recoil” just before pulling the trigger, and then concentrating on the sensation and acknowledging there is no pain, can help train yourself to stop flinching.


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[5.56 Bonded SP]

Dry fire practice drills is what you seek.

[Hohn]

Absolutely!^^^^^^

Remember that people generally flinch for two reasons, immediately after surprise and/or pain. In shooting (or other activities where we anticipate either, we unintentionally induce the response. So when someone is new to shooting, it’s important to understand this and proactively take steps to mitigate the action.

Three things I do when introducing new shooters to firearms:

1. Dry fire every weapon a dozen or more times at the range immediately prior to live fire

2. I have them wear BOTH earplugs AND muffs

3. Always shoot at least 100 rounds of .22LR, typically start with my Ruger 22-45 then SR22

Seems to help take the flinch out as it helps the brain understand that shooting does not hurt the body (assuming you do things in a safe manner and are on the right side of the muzzle )

Also, something I also do immediately prior to their shooting their first 9MM round is I have them hold the UNLOADED pistol (we check it twice to ensure it’s unloaded) pointing down range as if shooting, and close their eyes. I then randomly smack the muzzle end of the firearm with the heel of my palm pretty hard to simulate recoil. I then ask them “...did I hurt you?” We repeat this drill several times, a bit harder each time until I’m smacking the gun harder than any 10MM round. When they realize and wrap their heads around the fact by feel that there is no pain involved, it really helps.

Hard to do by yourself, I know, but by aiming the gun, closing your eyes and focusing on “feeling the recoil” just before pulling the trigger, and then concentrating on the sensation and acknowledging there is no pain, can help train yourself to stop flinching.


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Great advice in this post. I would suggest the people also flinch in *anticipation* of surprise or pain. It's a lot like when you drop something near your foot and say OUCH only to realize it missed and you don't have any pain at all, or if you say OUCH for a minor toe stub thinking it would be a big one and turns out it really didn't hurt.

One thing that really helped my flinch other than doing more shooting was practicing with a particular rifle I have that has a trigger with no perceptible wall at all. EVERY time you fire it you have no idea precisely when it will fire.

Two extremes of trigger design will help resist flinching. One extreme is a rolling trigger break with no perceptible "wall" to push through-- my Geissele SD3G is like this, but so is the DAO P250 sig and a few DAO handguns. They just move, move, move and BANG! (not all DAOs are free of stacking, many can be terrible and invite flinching).

The other extreme is a trigger that has zero movement at all until it breaks. Zero creep or "stacking". The 2nd stage of my Geissele HSNM is like this. You pull through the first stage, and park it at a short detent for the 2nd stage. It is impossible for it to move AT ALL in this 2nd stage without firing. (heck, it's tricky to not blow through the 2nd stage because it's only about 1.5#).

So a trigger that enables smooth firing must be linearly progressive in either position or in force, or both to some extent. A trigger that stair-steps builds (stacks) or just keeps creeping is one that invites a flinch.

I really struggled to shoot Glocks well for this reason. I could easily predict when the gun would fire, so I'd anticipate that and flinch. You want to see how bad your flinch is? Mix some snap caps with a live round in a magazine or revolver cylinder. When you hit that snap cap, you'll see just how badly you're jerking the trigger.

I'm still struggling with that pistol flinch for striker guns. One thing that seems to help is working on ramping up the force quickly once you get to a wall. So instead of pulling to the wall and building anticipation, once you hit that wall, you pull as quickly as you can smoothly pull. Start slow, work up in speed until you can get faster and stay smooth.

Dry Fire.
Dry Fire.
Dry Fire
And more Dry Fire.

[SteyrAUG]

In addition to all the other great info (dry fire, .22s, etc.) I try and introduce most new shooters to suppressed weapons.

What most people call recoil, they actually mean muzzle blast. Muzzle blast (and anticipation of) is what is actually frightening to most new shooters.

As a regular experiment, I suppress a a FN 45 and shoot it next to a FN 9 without suppressor and almost everyone will tell me they prefer the 45 because it has "less recoil." I also run a Glock 19 suppressed and after they are able to get used to it and the movement of the gun (which doesn't scare them suppressed) and they develop some consistency in hold and trigger and begin to group (usually a few hundred rounds) I tell we are taking the suppressor off and nothing is going to change except for a small firecracker in front of the muzzle which they eventually get used to.

[ndmiller]

Only thing I'll add which I really notice with my daughter is when you're tired, just stop. There isn't a benefit for a newer shooter (or even a veteran shooter) to continue trying to outshoot fatigue. It happens, recognize it, stop and come back to it tomorrow.

[T2C]

Only thing I'll add which I really notice with my daughter is when you're tired, just stop. There isn't a benefit for a newer shooter (or even a veteran shooter) to continue trying to outshoot fatigue. It happens, recognize it, stop and come back to it tomorrow.

There is merit to this. I attended an instructor meeting where we discussed this very thing. After about 150 rounds, a new shooter who is having difficulty grasping a concept is wasting ammunition and should step away for a while. If it is a condition of employment that they continue to train, then do something else to mix things up.

[HKGuns]

I'm an experienced shooter and can feel when I've had enough. Even the process of aiming precisely through an optic can be fatiguing, optically and mentally. This obviously doesn't apply in all shooting scenarios. But I definitely know when it is time to stop regardless of the reason.

I think I became more in tune with it shooting full house .44 Magnum for an extended time. There is only so much of that you can do in one session, regardless of experience. That said, I could probably pop off 556 rounds or 22 LR all day long and not be materially affected, unless shooting for precision through a scope for tiny groups.

[markm]

Even the process of aiming precisely through an optic can be fatiguing, optically and mentally.

This is SO true. After 3 rounds of a precision group I start losing it. 5 rounds is max. Some guys will say that 10 rounds are needed to get a real accuracy measurement. No way I can do that.