just for FYI, We were issued these in OEF 11, has a feed lip gauge built on.
http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar-15_html...ct/FS-001.html
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Member
just for FYI, We were issued these in OEF 11, has a feed lip gauge built on.
http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar-15_html...ct/FS-001.html
Last edited by wrecks30; 05-06-12 at 14:54.
Industry Professional/Moderator
I don't think that PMags would have gotten the attention that they did were it not for the HK magazine.
The HKs were an improvement over the ratty ass beat to hell bent and rebent feed-lip GI mags that so many of us were stuck with during the dark and depressing days of the Crime Bill. Magazine issues probably accounted for 80% of the issues we had with our M16s/M4s (don't even want to get into the M249 issues), mostly because armorers would simply reissue f***ed up magazines. I had one of my new kids show up to an inspection with a magazine with the word "BAD" clearly ledgible in red paint marker, IN MY F***ING HANDWRITING.
Anyway, HK mags were great if they were issued (before the spring wear issue reared its head) and didn't get dented, as they were hard to justify at the $80 price point they were demanding. We were mostly dropping the followers and springs from issued mags and replacing them with better followers from MagPul and springs from other mags or upgraded ones from Wolff. It was a good solution if you were issued magazines, but stung a bit if you were buying GI mags.
Then, out of the West sprang "new" polymer magazines. I first saw them in a Pat Rogers class, and they were to be considered "training only" magazines at that time. Before you could say "Tactical Reload" there were videos of dudes running them over with trucks, tanks, and steam-rollers. As a community, we were sold before we could even find them on shelves. The fact that they cost 1/5th the price of HK mags had tremendous appeal, as did the ability to stuff 30 rounds into them and be able to tac-reload, in addition to the nice feature to not ramdomly tear a gouge in your thumb while stuffing the mag/press checking the top round. They also came in uniform matching colors (!).
I was an early proponent of PMags. Never had an issue with them (only bought one windowed mag, for verification of claims), and there were a lot of nice things about them. I destroyed one of mine just to see how much abuse one could take before failure. And make no bones about it, I absolutely did break it. What I really liked was how much damage the feedlips could take, and when they did break, they still would work (at least for the remainer of that magazine), and damage would simply take a chunk out of the mag or create a clean crack that would not interfere with operation. A small dent in the side of a metal mag will bind the follower, and bent feedlips will cause problems. An experienced eye will quickly identify the problem, but there are not as many experienced eyes in the .mil as there rightfully should be. Further, they actually worked in M249s, which was a nice bonus. So, an inexpensive magazine that functionally holds 30 rounds (though I load to 28 for real work) featuring a working anti-tilt and crud resistant follower that can be quickly visually checked for issues and worked in all of our 5.56 weapons held great value.
Then the love affair began to taper off.
It all really started a few years ago when a batch of them had repeated failures during a carbine course. The guy that reported it was met by huge push-back. Then issues started to arise in cold weather, which was also met by huge push-back. It was initially reported that non-black versions were less robust than the black ones, but that was met by huge push-back. It seemed that only people that personally experienced issues with PMags believed that they weren't the single greatest improvement to the system since the Mk262.
I have broken PMags.
I have broken HK mags.
I have broken a lot of GI mags.
I also wear out disposable razors at a pretty predicatable pace.
Magazines are a disposable item. Do not pay more for them than what you are willing to throw away once expected service life is met in your environment. Most magazines work...until they don't.
I stopped buying magazines about 2 years ago, other than a few "new" GI mags I grabbed on a whim for $9 each.
When my rotation of mags drops by another 20 I will probably pick up some of the new Lancers (just to see how they work) or GI mags (I have a relatively unfounded fondness for OKay mags, but haven't seen new ones in a while).
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Gunzilla
The best reason I've seen for using EVERYTHING but metal G.I. magazines: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdesKUSUchA
After watching this I wouldn't take G.I. magazines if they were offered for free, it's Magpul or nothing.
It makes me wonder if the guy making the final decision watched this video, or ever pulled a trigger in anger.
I won't comment on the video or the post. However I did love this comment on the video.
Humvee: DIE PMAG DIEEE!!!
PMAG: HAHAHAH I LAUGH AT YOUR ATTEMPTS TO HURT ME!!
HUMVEE: WHY WONT YOU DIE!!
PMAG: THIS IS GETTING TIRING...WAKE ME UP WHEN YOU DONE
HUMVEE: GO TO HELL PMAG!! *runs off angrily*
Member
Are the tan followers anti tilt?
Senior Member
Yep, they are.
Last edited by a0cake; 05-06-12 at 16:38.
Senior Member
F2S pretty much summed it up. The problem is a system that tries to keep a disposable, non repairable item in service beyond its limits. All unserviceable GI mags should be destroyed as soon as they are determined to be defective with the heal of ones boot in order to prevent them from being recirculated. The new tan followers sound great except for the fact that they should have been designed so as to limit the magazine to 28 rounds.
Member
That just shows character. a0cake, you're a solid dude.
Member
I agree totally with Pat. If personal experience is different than what some SME on hear are saying, I am going with personal experience. Once again I wonder how one becomes a SME.......I have personally seen crap on here that I just can't believe people are supporting product "A" over product "B". Only thing I can figure is that they are getting freebies or it looks good in "Call of Duty, Modern Warfare". We must remember, and I am NOT knocking 90% of our true SMEs on here, if you are an "Instructor/Trainer", you got to have some kinda of new technique or new tool to make you relevant. Or you start bashing something that a majority of people have NOT had any issues with because you need to market your stuff. I love these guys who always say "If you like this, your an idiot." Then they never back up what they are saying with some actual research or examples. Then magically they appear with a new product endorsement. They are as fake as any pop singer on MTV selling records. Any acclaimed SME out there giving info just so they can make a buck can burn in hell......
Senior Member
You went full retard man. Nobody here is making money by bashing PMAG's and advocating using USGI mags.
Senior Member
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