Civility (aka the "We Will Crush Your Balls" edict).

**Army Chief** · 05-24-13, 08:24

We know, Bax, we know ... but the hard lessons of the past tell us that killing GD would just result in these OT discussions spilling over into the more technical areas of the site, which is even less acceptable than the troubles we're dealing with right now.

Truth be told, I'm not a hard-liner kind of guy at all, and the above was written with at least some passive aggresive nod towards humor; that said, we are serious about this, and we've got to get a handle on the bickering. It is beneath the quality standards of the site, and it is dragging all of us down with it.

Members are getting knotted up over it, the staff is running around all over the place trying to referee the skirmishes, and (probably worst of all) new guys are seeing this stuff go down and assuming that M4C is just another Internet free-fire rant zone.

We can do better. We must do better.

Guys that would share their ammo or canteens with any of their fellow members here suddenly want to punch some of those same dudes in the nose because of some goofy position on a social, religious or political issue? That's truly not seeing the forest for the trees.

The view is always better from the high ground.

AC

**Littlelebowski** · 05-24-13, 08:26

I think this is what the staff has to do if nuking GD from orbit is not an option.

Are there any thoughts on those forum members that post solely in GD?

**Army Chief** · 05-24-13, 08:53

Originally Posted by Littlelebowski

Are there any thoughts on those forum members that post solely in GD?

I can speak only for myself here, as I'm not aware of any particularly recent staff discussion along those lines. Personally, if a guy only cares to populate GD, he's probably missing the whole point of this resource, but that (in and of itself) doesn't necessarily mean he's contributing to a problem, or that he should be rooted-out and discarded. The manner of conduct is still what we will tend to use as the GO/NO GO standard in those cases.

What it does mean is that he's chosen to focus on a fairly high-risk area at the expense of far more important ones, and sooner or later, he is likely to get so accustomed to the bickering that he will inadvertently become a part of the problem himself. Not really because that was his intent; just because he's made a habit of staying in an area that sees more than its share of daily train wrecks.

We see much the same thing with members who have a habit of unusually-high posting activity (i.e. the guys who seem to comment on everything just to keep themselves entertained). At some point, some of these guys get so far out of their lanes that they throw out dialogue that simply begs to be beaten down and/or corrected. Again, no malicious intent, but the end result is still discord.

We try to stay focused on the content that shows up on the boards, rather than the individuals who put it there. When the content is not acceptable, or it marks an open invitation for a skirmish, we deal with the member(s) responsible; that said, we don't want to make this stuff any more personal than the guy on the receiving end wants to be singled-out or infracted.

This is why we keep hammering away at the idea that is isn't who you are or what you believe that creates friction; it's how you present your views, and -- here's the real kicker -- how you respond to others who may feel quite differently. We all tend to be fairly passionate about those things that matter most to us, but there is a fine line between suggesting an alternate point of view, and going for the throat of someone with whom you cannot seem to see eye-to-eye.

Some guys aren't aware of that line; others simply choose to ignore it. Both are ripe for involuntary compression of their man sacks.

AC

**munch520** · 05-24-13, 11:30

Thanks for the reminder Chuck! And I apologize that my thread was no doubt a contributing factor to your posting this topic

ETA: I browse many media outlets and usually watch 2-3 (even CNN) to get my news. I like to get it from all biases. Given that, I enjoy I GD for getting news as well; primarily since we are all like-minded and the productive discussion that can ensue. That said, I don't think I'd be for nuking GD.

**THCDDM4** · 05-24-13, 12:08

A/C-
I love your posts man. They always make me laugh my arse off!

I agree, GD should remain. It is a wonderful forum to gain insight into others views/opinions, share thoughts and cross reference information.

The fact that some cannot maintain an adult attitude should not make us abandon the GD forum altogether, that makes no sense.

Thanks for holding INDIVIDUALS accountable for their actions instead of punishing the group. It is needed more and more in this world- across the board!

I hate seeing GD threads go sour due to grown men acting like little boys measuring dicks and slinging feces.

We are all here to learn and share, no reason to put eachtother down or make anyone feel inferior due to their specific opinion, religous belief, politics or otherwise.

We need more true debate and less arguing. It all starts with thinking before posting. The preview button is your best friend second only to the search button...

People need to grow thicker skin or just bow out. No one is forcing GD on anyone else...

Thanks and take care A/C; it's good to see you posting so regularly again sir, for a plethora of reasons!

Let the ball crushings commense!

**tb-av** · 05-25-13, 12:26

Originally Posted by THCDDM4

Thanks for holding INDIVIDUALS accountable for their actions instead of punishing the group.

Agreed, it's a real pisser when one member decides to troll a thread.

You get one guy that decides his or her often narrowly on topic opinion needs to be woven towards several otherwise casual observers. Then when someone like AC or other admin takes the time they don't have in their schedule to browse a thread they see 5 people in a pissing match over who knows what then lock the thread.

Unfortunately... some of these threads are current events and I often like to hear the varied opinions on the subjects. These subject's often unfold over time as well... like Zimmerman v Martin or Boston Bomber.

So I would suggest use the "report post" feature so the admins can go direct to the person you see as trouble, make their decision, and we can all move on without a forum full of locked threads.

A forum troll's goal in life is to draw as many people into a thread of adversity with narrowly on topic and supportable comments in an effort to label those drawn in as wrong headed, disruptive and adversarial and as a bonus get a thread closed. Each time they succeed in this they use those results to support their further disruptive and luring behavior in other threads.

The real disagreements... the real RU f'n Nutz or Dude STFU comments usually start and end with a post or two naturally.

The Troll likes to fish all day.

Don't feed the Troll....

**Army Chief** · 05-25-13, 14:25

Originally Posted by tb-av

You get one guy that decides his or her often narrowly on topic opinion needs to be woven towards several otherwise casual observers. Then when someone like AC or other admin takes the time they don't have in their schedule to browse a thread they see 5 people in a pissing match over who knows what then lock the thread.

That's pretty much what happens, and to be perfectly honest about this, I always feel like a prick when I have to lock a thread. As you say, though, it is often hard for a mod to wade in to a heated debate and have any idea where it really started to go off of the rails, or who should bear the blame.

Part of that is because, with very few exceptions, I don't know -- or can't remember -- which member(s) have difficulty getting along with which other member(s). So, when you see Joey Bagadonutz show up and rain on your thread, and you already loathe the guy because you went toe-to-toe in a 2008 discussion about which way the free end of a roll of toilet paper should hang, well ... you're going to get spun-up in a hurry, whereas I don't know any of that history, and the whole thing just looks like a senseless brawl to me.

That's in large part why I'm asking folks to just clear the books, settle the accounts, and try to let go of whatever histories you might have with another member -- for whatever reason. If that is A Bridge Too Far, as SteyrAUG has pointed out, there is always the "ignore" button.

AC

**Army Chief** · 05-24-13, 12:39

Originally Posted by munch520

And I apologize that my thread was no doubt a contributing factor to your posting this topic

I can honestly say that this somewhat errant missive was written with no particular thread or member in mind, and in fact, I'm only rarely even aware of who is/is not engaged in one of these battles until a call for intervention comes in. At that point, it almost doesn't matter who has contributed most significantly to the problem, as my only real objective is to calm the waters and hit the "reset" button. This very thread is really nothing more than one big deliberate forced reboot.

The truth is that even the biggest jerk on the site (whoever that might be -- we can always vote later

) is probably a decent-enough dude if you were sitting at a table with him one-on-one. We just tend to deal with each other differently in this medium, and as we've discussed before, folks don't get or give the same benefit of the doubt here that they would in-person. Recognizing this, you would think that guys would learn how to recognize and avoid these conflicts. With apologies to Gershwin, it ain't necessarily so.

However we got here, and whoever has been involved, I'm no more interested in forced vacations, bans or ball-crushing than anyone else here. On the other hand, this sort of thing has to be stopped because (if you'll pardon me for being the one to make the observation) it is like a cancer in our community.

At the end of the day, no one really cares if you were right or wrong, if you agreed or if you disagreed, or whether you won or lost ... but they will definitely remember if you treated them badly, or got in their face about something. Most of you will understand this (word to the wise, and all that ...) and do your part to fix it. Others will instead end up walking funny for a while. Some will likely disappear altogether. This isn't exactly Burger King, but this is definitely one instance where you truly can "have it your way."

AC