Basic pistol technique question

[John_Wayne777]

In the game we are preparing for; fractions of seconds add up very quick.

I believe a large federal agency has done a considerable amount of research using video of actual gunfights and has concluded that the average person under gunfight stress fires one shot every 1/4 of a second.

...so when you look at it that way, every 1/4 of a second is another shot the other guy gets at you.

[Shadow1198]

In the game we are preparing for; fractions of seconds add up very quick. I used to do the elbow to body method until I spent some time with Jason Falla, Kyle DeFoor, and Tony while up at USTC last year. While I felt fast and more comfortable with the elbow contact method; when I compared it to a less compressed position on the shot timer I saw that I was wasting valuable time with un-needed movement by bringing my elbow in in order to contact my torso. I lose nothing in situational awareness, control of the gun, etc by keeping slightly away from body.

I would suggest you actually do some training with the "extended" position, then comparing the two on a shot timer.

Interesting. Thanks for the tip. That makes sense. I'll have to play around with that technique. Come to think of it, after shooting a bit today, I realized I don't think my elbow actually touches my chest most of the time during reloads, but is maybe 2-4" off my chest and only compressed just a little from full extension. That's not intentional, I guess I've subconsciously started doing that at some point without even realizing it as it must feel more comfortable or faster or something. Weird.

[6933]

Saying a movement only occupies a fraction of a second and so; is therefore negligible, tells me someone hasn't either kept up with current thinking in firearms or the person simply isn't properly trained. Perhaps it's both. 1/4 of a sec. is considered a benchmark. It takes around 1/4 sec. to react to anything for most people. Being a 1/4 second behind in a draw with a BG means he has the drop on you. Hope he isn't trained or lucky. 1/4 sec. was harped on by Kyle DeFoor and J.D. Potynsky at the last TigerSwan class I took. It made perfect sense. They discussed it many times and is too much to get into here. Considering a trained person can go from retention to breaking a shot in under 2 secs. means 1/4 sec. is a lot of time.

NC- Ya' gotta' get down to Fayettenam for TigerSwan since Kyle left USTC for TS. They are the sh**.

[C4IGrant]

Saying a movement only occupies a fraction of a second and so; is therefore negligible, tells me someone hasn't either kept up with current thinking in firearms or the person simply isn't properly trained. Perhaps it's both. 1/4 of a sec. is considered a benchmark. It takes around 1/4 sec. to react to anything for most people. Being a 1/4 second behind in a draw with a BG means he has the drop on you. Hope he isn't trained or lucky. 1/4 sec. was harped on by Kyle DeFoor and J.D. Potynsky at the last TigerSwan class I took. It made perfect sense. They discussed it many times and is too much to get into here. Considering a trained person can go from retention to breaking a shot in under 2 secs. means 1/4 sec. is a lot of time.

Right. 1/4 of a second is an eternity.


G

[Failure2Stop]

Right. 1/4 of a second is an eternity.

It's a lifetime.
Literally.

[QuickStrike]

Slightly off-topic. Are the upper arms suppose to be flexed or relaxed?

Chest squeezing the hands into the pistol?

Shoulders?

I know the grip is suppose to be pretty firm, but never read about the other parts of the arm.

[BLACK LION]

It's apparent that modern doctrine supports the use of an isosceles style. For those who use that style, when you drive the pistol forward, do you fully straighten both arms outward or leave them 'bent'?

On your reloads, do you keep the gun up and on target, or pull back slightly into a 'workspace'?

I press out until I feel the habituated reference point....any further and I get an uncomfortable sensation in my elbow and muscle.
I dont lock my elbows but I do lock the mucscles and connective tissues around the elbow joint all while pressing out with the firing arm and pulling in with the support arm.

On relaods, I roll the gun over in front of my "adams apple" but slightly right or left depending on which is the firing hand and the palms are up as if I was holding a book 1 handed or about to dring from a bowl. This way I can still scan my perimeter without fixating on the gun or the mag until the rounds are an inch away from the well then for a split secong I verify everything is gtg before inserting and going to the ready or pressing out.
I sweep my mags from thier holder and do not even take one peek until the mag is below my face in my peripheral vision.

[BLACK LION]

Slightly off-topic. Are the upper arms suppose to be flexed or relaxed?

Chest squeezing the hands into the pistol?

Shoulders?

I know the grip is suppose to be pretty firm, but never read about the other parts of the arm.

I tend to tighten as many muscles and connective tissue I can, all the way down to my core. I find I can add tension to the biceps, triceps pecs, lats and abs. Not too tight or too tense but kind of moderate and comfortable.

[Jay Cunningham]

As I practice more and more and get a chance to see stills and some video of myself, I see that I tend to press out to full extension - though with a caveat.

I tend to press out to full extension from a draw. From a ready position I am less likely to do this, and when I am actively shooting on the move I tend to have a discernable bend in both my elbows. if I am shooting static drills I always have a conscious bend to my elbows.

I think this might be due to the nature of the action. A draw from concealment tends to be reactive; I think there is something to be said for a reactive stress response. Additionally, a press out to full extension allows me to seamlessly employ point shooting if I must, given the nature of the threat.

I plan on continuing to analyze my own technique.

[Surf]

Jay,

I have become a pretty firm believer over the years in video and shot timers for training. Primarily video, but shot timers in certain instances also reveal quite a bit.

It is one thing to tell someone what they are doing incorrect, but it is often hard for certain people to absorb or accept this critique if they firmly do not believe they are doing it. This goes especially for more experienced shooters, who often have a harder time accepting fine tuning critiques. Show them video of exactly what is going on and it is hard to argue, as video really doesn't lie. Showing video of the corrected technique will also help to re-reinforce the results.

I know it seems funny at times, setting up a camera and running timers, but it can make for a huge difference. At least it has for myself anyway. And just like you, I am finding small things in my techniques when running different tactics / techniques just like you mention.

We shoot a ton of video of training evolutions, especially in our 10 week FNG school, from SIMS work, to Shoothouse work, etc, etc.... Myself and the rest of the training staff, pour over hours of video evaluating our guys tactics / techniques. Great way to dissect and analyze individual and team skills or for evaluating different stand alone tactics / techniques. Especially the latest and greatest ones.