XD's.....why do you all hate them so much?

[bkb0000]

It'd be handy if we had a cut-away of the M&P.

somebody send me an M&P... i have a dremel.

[Irish]

There is no way they could sell as many as they do if they sucked. Are they better than this or that? Maybe -maybe not, but they do not suck. Very nice guns and do well in a very competitive market.

Just a business man looking at the facts.

They sold alot of Yugos and pet rocks in the day too. Just because you sell alot of one particular thing doesn't make it well made or useful.

[spamsammich]

I have heard that trigger cocks the M&P striker further prior to release, but have yet to hear that from an S&W rep or employee, much less a distance of travel. I mostly get a blank look in reply, or "here, have you shot (another variant)?"

I know about the Glock... Striker travel on trigger pull in the Glock is easily discernable, and observable. Especially if you have a cut-away.

It'd be handy if we had a cut-away of the M&P.

The sear has a convex surface or bump on the surface that engages the striker. When you pull the trigger the sear tilts down and that bump forces the striker back an additional .030" or so rather than just tripping the sear. If you go to the Burwell trigger job website there is a good PDF that has some good detailed shots of the sear. Sorry for my horrible description, I'll try to find a picture of what I'm talking about.

[spamsammich]

I used to own an XD, and although I tried hard to like it I never could. It had excessive recoil and muzzle flip compared to the competition, a spongy trigger with a long reset, a supposedly 'ergonomic grip' that I could not manage to hold in a thumbs forward position, and marginal accuracy. It never failed in the 5-600 rounds I put through it, but there was a striking performance gap between it and the other popular guns I shot it side by side with. With Glock 17/19's and the M&P's priced so closely, I don't see any upside. YMMV.

This was exactly my take on the XD and XDms I've shot in 40 and 9, though I'm pretty sure I was the source of the "marginal accuracy".

[kmrtnsn]

It may appear that SA is selling a lot of XDs, one or two at a time at the local gun shop compared to the Berettas, S&Ws, Glocks, etc. in the gun shop display case. Such piecemeal retail sales are a poor judge of sales success. If you want to judge the real success of a particular pistol then you have to look at the 1000-10,000 unit departmental/agency volume orders. When you judge the XD by that standard it is a dismal sales failure because there have never been any such orders.

[Kilroy]

Doesnt matter what marketing term is used.

The M&P pre-cocks the striker when you chamber a round, but pulling the trigger still has to cock the striker further for the gun to fire. Glock works the same way

The XD fully cocks the striker. I suppose this is why they included a grip safety.

Agreed. It does not matter the term used, unless you are a government entity charged with purchasing based on actual mechanical characteristics.

Have you actually examined the fire control mechanism of the M&P? The trigger bar moves the sear so as to disengage the striker allowing it to to forward. The mechanism is not set up to actually move the striker, other then the sear moving across the bearing surface of the striker.

One only has to examine S&W's own documentation from the start of M&P advertising to see the evolution of this description.

The XD cutaway is non-functional as far as the fire control system. They M&P cutaway is yet to be seen. Very recently a large agency in the northeastern US did an actual technical evaluation of modern handguns with the purpose of a major investment in duty pistols. The M&P was removed from consideration when the technical analysis did not match the sales advertising description.

To those that it matters to, the M&P does not make the cut as a trigger cocking mechanism. To those that don't care, or have reason to care, they'll be quite happy with the M&P.

[Kilroy]

It may appear that SA is selling a lot of XDs, one or two at a time at the local gun shop compared to........

When you judge the XD by that standard it is a dismal sales failure because there have never been any such orders.

Gun store sales of the XD were certainly helped by the "bounty" Springfield paid employees for the sale of each pistol. It became less about the what customer wanted or needed, but about getting another XD sold.

I only know of one large LE agency sale, on the West Coast, with the express approval of the firearms staff. Once the XD was in place, the staff pointed out that since single action pistols were now issued, "we" should be able to carry single action pistols that have an extra (thumb) safety. They wanted to carry 1911s. The CLEO was not amused.

They sold alot of Yugos and pet rocks in the day too. Just because you sell alot of one particular thing doesn't make it well made or useful.

A well made point. Furbies (sp?) comes to mind....

[Patrick Aherne]

I have never been in a training class with an XD shooter who was able to make it through the class without pistol problems. Try injured-had drills with that XD, like one-handed malfunction clearing. That grip safety makes it a no-go for duty use. Armorer support and parts are non-existent. Most PDs do not have US manufacture clauses in purchase contracts for weapons. XDs do not get chosen for duty pistol use for the reasons I've posted above. I could care less how much a pistol costs, or where it's made.

[bkb0000]

I have never been in a training class with an XD shooter who was able to make it through the class without pistol problems.

while i'm sure a lot of this is the gun, i also strongly suspect that this is a lot to do with the fact that most XD owners are highly inexperienced shooters... limp-dicking, shitty ammo, maybe even poor condition (floating around under the truck bench for a year without loob/cleaning).. combined with a weapon that had probably only been fired 50 times with some aluminum-cased Blaser that came free with the gun before the class..

[Business_Casual]

while i'm sure a lot of this is the gun, i also strongly suspect that this is a lot to do with the fact that most XD owners are highly inexperienced shooters... limp-dicking, shitty ammo, maybe even poor condition (floating around under the truck bench for a year without loob/cleaning).. combined with a weapon that had probably only been fired 50 times with some aluminum-cased Blaser that came free with the gun before the class..

Now that is first class XD hating of the quality I've come to expect from this forum. The rest of you take note.

M_P