How does Law Enforcement manage to get by with M&P15s?

[Hank6046]

It is until you start letting "American Mediocrity" leak into the gun. The smallest little things NOT done RIGHT, really start causing problems quickly. I'm telling you. That fukkin piece of shit S&W Sport fell apart quick.

I would agree, I remember all the Freedom Group ARs, even my father-in-law still has his original DPMS upper (still has the lower with a newer Stag LH Middy), but the original upper would constantly choke because of overhang of the barrel feed ramps

[SteyrAUG]

I'm seeing an interesting assortment of statements on the subject, but the consensus seems to be that LEOs don't shoot enough for any of the parts on an M&P15 to break, which begs the question, how many rounds would an M&P15 fire before parts would begin to break, and how close is it to the average round count which would cause parts to break on a Colt 6920?

What you are actually seeing is that LEOs are not the standard bearers when it comes to defensive carbines. If you've ever seen what a LE armorer will do to a rifle, it's clear they have no idea what they are doing.

I thought my picture of the PD with their Carbon 15 pistols would have answered any of these questions.

[HKGuns]

What you are actually seeing is that LEOs are not the standard bearers when it comes to defensive carbines. If you've ever seen what a LE armorer will do to a rifle, it's clear they have no idea what they are doing.

I thought my picture of the PD with their Carbon 15 pistols would have answered any of these questions.

Chuck would be proud.

[Defaultmp3]

I wish that more folks would do endurance tests on YouTube. I've seen Military Arms Channel's on-going endurance test of a BCM which has currently gone 8600 rounds without anything breaking and Garand Thumb's endurance test on a PSA Freedom AR which went 4000 rounds until an extractor spring broke, then 6000 until the barrel was worn out.

I'd love too see more endurance tests like that on other brands as well. You hear from a lot of folks who talk about how they shoot 1000+ rounds per range trip and such, I wish they'd just prop up their phone or something and record it then post it on YouTube.

Social media endurance tests are nothing more than entertainment. They are almost always done with n = 1, in non-laboratory settings, making comparisons between different guns and different videos very difficult. They are simply single anecdotes, not uniform enough to have each video be its own datum. The worst part is, that many folks will then cite these videos as if they can be used to form some kind of valid generalization about a brand or model.

[lysander]

Is that an educated guess or just a wild one? Not that it sounds unreasonable or anything, just curious whether or not you're basing it on observation.

The list is based on the minimum allowable to pass acceptance in accordance with MIL-DTL-71186A. M4s and M4A1s tested after acceptance usually show better, but that is the worst I would expect from a random selection of Colt 6920s.

As to the S&W, the estimate is based on where the usual corners are cut, springs.

[Echo40]

https://www.del-ton.com/DT-Sport-Mod-2-p/dtsport-m2.htm

I believe the following link was it. Again this was just a range rental gun, So a standard Melonite 4140, no chrome lining. The thing was over-gassed but I believe we only fed it Magtech, Wolf Gold or PMC, you had to buy the ammo from us to shoot it.

Thanks for the info, I suspected that it would be pretty basic considering the pricepoint of Delton ARs, but if anything that only makes it more impressive that it ran so long, especially in a low maintenance environment like rental guns typically are.

What you are actually seeing is that LEOs are not the standard bearers when it comes to defensive carbines. If you've ever seen what a LE armorer will do to a rifle, it's clear they have no idea what they are doing.

I thought my picture of the PD with their Carbon 15 pistols would have answered any of these questions.

I own a few police trade-ins with a few non-standard modifications, one of which being an M&P15X which was modified with a BCM Buffer Tube/QD End Plate and Ambi Safety. The castle nut appears to have been staked with a Phillips Head Screwdriver and a couple hard whacks with a hammer.

Unfortunately, your picture isn't showing up for me.

Social media endurance tests are nothing more than entertainment. They are almost always done with n = 1, in non-laboratory settings, making comparisons between different guns and different videos very difficult. They are simply single anecdotes, not uniform enough to have each video be its own datum. The worst part is, that many folks will then cite these videos as if they can be used to form some kind of valid generalization about a brand or model.

True, but even if it's a sample size of one, performed in the field under less than laboratory perfect conditions, and the results may very well be inconsistent otherwise, it's still something to go by, more information than none at all.

The list is based on the minimum allowable to pass acceptance in accordance with MIL-DTL-71186A. M4s and M4A1s tested after acceptance usually show better, but that is the worst I would expect from a random selection of Colt 6920s.

As to the S&W, the estimate is based on where the usual corners are cut, springs.

I'm familiar with those specs, but I wasn't aware that the M&P15 even met the bare minimum of acceptable conditions as per MIL-DTL-71186A.

I'm surprised that springs are the example you'd give for cut corners, most folks cite the M&P15 Sport's unshielded hand gaurds or to a lesser extent the 4140 nitrided bbl.

[Waylander]

Barrels and hand guards aren’t something that will make a gun suddenly break. Springs are.

The military has beat Colt ARs to death for decades. That would also include mil FN built to the TDP but you cannot buy those. That isn’t to say guns can’t be made better (arguably HK 416) but none have gone through that vast proving ground for many decades.

That’s why, FOR THE MONEY, people say just get a Colt instead of anything else in that price range. It’s the easy button.

[1168]

I'm surprised that springs are the example you'd give for cut corners,

You might be surprised how common that is, even occurring on $2,000 guns. And probably nearly all inexpensive ones.

[Heavyweight]

I agree with lysander. The M&Ps aren't terrible carbines.

Now the S&W sport ARs are complete shit. I kid we know had one and at least 4 things went wrong in the first few months. Mag catch broke. Buffer roll pin drifted out, and a couple of other things too. Had he paid for the stuff I fixed on the gun, he'd have been out the money to just get a 6920.

This is spot on. My son bought an M&P Patrol Carbine a few years ago on a budget. I told him I’d replace all the parts with Colt factory parts if we needed to. We haven’t needed to. We’ve put hundreds and hundreds of rounds through it in the last 3 years with no problems.

Now, my son’s dumbass father in law bought a Sport II against my strict advice. It practically shook itself apart. It was over gassed and had substandard parts. The bolt lugs sheared off, the bolt catch broke, and the trigger pins kept walking out. Complete piece of shit.


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[flenna]

I thought my picture of the PD with their Carbon 15 pistols would have answered any of these questions.

Even better are the two officers in the back row pointing their weapons at the heads of the guys in front.