How does Law Enforcement manage to get by with M&P15s?

[markm]

I'm seeing an interesting assortment of statements on the subject, but the consensus seems to be that LEOs don't shoot enough for any of the parts on an M&P15 to break, which begs the question, how many rounds would an M&P15 fire before parts would begin to break, and how close is it to the average round count which would cause parts to break on a Colt 6920?

I've read several general observation articles/post by instructors who've outlined their observations on ARs having failures. Can't remember M&P being mentioned, but indeed the Colts/BCMs tend to be the most trouble free. You have other good guns out there like DD and LMT, but I don't know how commonly those are found in training... opposed to a 6920 which at least a few are probably in every class.

[Hank6046]

I'm seeing an interesting assortment of statements on the subject, but the consensus seems to be that LEOs don't shoot enough for any of the parts on an M&P15 to break, which begs the question, how many rounds would an M&P15 fire before parts would begin to break, and how close is it to the average round count which would cause parts to break on a Colt 6920?

So I don't think people realize how durable the AR platform is in general. Again in working at a indoor gun range I've seen a Delton that went 16k before rounds started keyholing and it was clear that the barrel was burnt out. Now this is in pretty ideal conditions with people who can do minimal maintenance, but it makes sense when people talk about their PSA or whatever brand rifles that probably don't stick to "Mil-spec". And the conditions a PD rifle see's are probably much more favorable to some soldier on the frontlines. So an M&P15 that is shot minimally, and is rarely exposed to harsh elements might last a while.

[lysander]

Coincidentally, I was just talking today with a retired Kalifornia C.O.P. who "Escaped" to Idaho. (His words)

He was telling me he wanted Colt rifles for his troopers but he didn't have the budget for them. He went on to say he "settled" on M&P's that he could afford.

He was real clear he'd have preferred to have Colt rifles.

I really wanted a brand new Chevrolet 2500HD with a 6.6L Duramax, but I settled on an ex-power company bare bones F-150.

I want to be clear, I really would prefer to have the new Chevy, but at least I have a truck . . . .

[lysander]

I'm seeing an interesting assortment of statements on the subject, but the consensus seems to be that LEOs don't shoot enough for any of the parts on an M&P15 to break, which begs the question, how many rounds would an M&P15 fire before parts would begin to break, and how close is it to the average round count which would cause parts to break on a Colt 6920?

I would guess if you pulled 4 Colt 6920s off the rack and put 6,000 rounds through each of them (for a total of 24,000 rounds), at most you would see:

- 2 broken ejector springs, but not before 3,000 rounds on each spring.
- 4 broken extractor springs, but not before 3,600 rounds on each spring.
- 2 worn out bolt rings sets, but not before 1,200 rounds on the set.
- 2 broken/worn/damaged of the following: trigger spring, disconnector spring, hammer spring, extractor, or extractor pin, each with a minimum life of 3,000 rounds.
- However, the total number of unserviceable parts from all four rifles will not exceed 5.
- A ten round group size not much bigger than 7.0 inches at 100 yards after 6000 rounds.

I would estimate that the S&W M&P15 would do about the same, except maybe consume 7 or 8 parts over the 24,000 rounds rather than the 5 for the Colt.

[HKGuns]

I really wanted a brand new Chevrolet 2500HD with a 6.6L Duramax, but I settled on an ex-power company bare bones F-150.

I want to be clear, I really would prefer to have the new Chevy, but at least I have a truck . . . .

Meh, in your case the F150 is actually better, Hard pass on the the Government Motors trucks.

[Echo40]

So I don't think people realize how durable the AR platform is in general. Again in working at a indoor gun range I've seen a Delton that went 16k before rounds started keyholing and it was clear that the barrel was burnt out. Now this is in pretty ideal conditions with people who can do minimal maintenance, but it makes sense when people talk about their PSA or whatever brand rifles that probably don't stick to "Mil-spec". And the conditions a PD rifle see's are probably much more favorable to some soldier on the frontlines. So an M&P15 that is shot minimally, and is rarely exposed to harsh elements might last a while.

16,000 rounds out of a Delton is pretty impressive. I would be interested in knowing the basic specs of the barrel if you happen to know them. Standard or Hammer Forged? 4140 or 4150 Steel? Chrome-lined or Nitrided bore? HPT/MPI or not?
I'm unfamiliar with Delton ARs, I know they're a budget brand, but then again I've seen Bear Creek and PSA ARs with specs which at least claim to have more premium features.

I would guess if you pulled 4 Colt 6920s off the rack and put 6,000 rounds through each of them (for a total of 24,000 rounds), at most you would see:

- 2 broken ejector springs, but not before 3,000 rounds on each spring.
- 4 broken extractor springs, but not before 3,600 rounds on each spring.
- 2 worn out bolt rings sets, but not before 1,200 rounds on the set.
- 2 broken/worn/damaged of the following: trigger spring, disconnector spring, hammer spring, extractor, or extractor pin, each with a minimum life of 3,000 rounds.
- However, the total number of unserviceable parts from all four rifles will not exceed 5.
- A ten round group size not much bigger than 7.0 inches at 100 yards after 6000 rounds.

I would estimate that the S&W M&P15 would do about the same, except maybe consume 7 or 8 parts over the 24,000 rounds rather than the 5 for the Colt.

Is that an educated guess or just a wild one? Not that it sounds unreasonable or anything, just curious whether or not you're basing it on observation.

I wish that more folks would do endurance tests on YouTube. I've seen Military Arms Channel's on-going endurance test of a BCM which has currently gone 8600 rounds without anything breaking and Garand Thumb's endurance test on a PSA Freedom AR which went 4000 rounds until an extractor spring broke, then 6000 until the barrel was worn out.

I'd love too see more endurance tests like that on other brands as well. You hear from a lot of folks who talk about how they shoot 1000+ rounds per range trip and such, I wish they'd just prop up their phone or something and record it then post it on YouTube.

[markm]

So I don't think people realize how durable the AR platform is in general.

It is until you start letting "American Mediocrity" leak into the gun. The smallest little things NOT done RIGHT, really start causing problems quickly. I'm telling you. That fukkin piece of shit S&W Sport fell apart quick.

[1168]

I would guess if you pulled 4 Colt 6920s off the rack and put 6,000 rounds through each of them (for a total of 24,000 rounds), at most you would see:

- 2 broken ejector springs, but not before 3,000 rounds on each spring.
- 4 broken extractor springs, but not before 3,600 rounds on each spring.
- 2 worn out bolt rings sets, but not before 1,200 rounds on the set.
- 2 broken/worn/damaged of the following: trigger spring, disconnector spring, hammer spring, extractor, or extractor pin, each with a minimum life of 3,000 rounds.
- However, the total number of unserviceable parts from all four rifles will not exceed 5.
- A ten round group size not much bigger than 7.0 inches at 100 yards after 6000 rounds.

I would estimate that the S&W M&P15 would do about the same, except maybe consume 7 or 8 parts over the 24,000 rounds rather than the 5 for the Colt.

At most, indeed. In a round count as moderate as 6k per gun, I think the only thing likely to deadline a (quality) Smith more frequently than a 6920 is extractor springs. I also don’t know that for certain because I’m not very thorough with that sort of data, and don’t really pay much attention to brand unless its abysmal.

I apologize if I’ve asked you this before, but I suspect that parts breakage intervals are ammo dependent. Like, Remchesteral .223 vs .mil ammo. I think most moderate-high quality guns are robust enough for most ammo fired by most people, most of the time. If the standard is simply “did it break”.

[1168]

Is that an educated guess or just a wild one? Not that it sounds unreasonable or anything, just curious whether or not you're basing it on observation.

If Lysander is saying it, it’s probably not a guess at all.

[Hank6046]

16,000 rounds out of a Delton is pretty impressive. I would be interested in knowing the basic specs of the barrel if you happen to know them. Standard or Hammer Forged? 4140 or 4150 Steel? Chrome-lined or Nitrided bore? HPT/MPI or not?
I'm unfamiliar with Delton ARs, I know they're a budget brand, but then again I've seen Bear Creek and PSA ARs with specs which at least claim to have more premium features.

https://www.del-ton.com/DT-Sport-Mod-2-p/dtsport-m2.htm

I believe the following link was it. Again this was just a range rental gun, So a standard Melonite 4140, no chrome lining. The thing was over-gassed but I believe we only fed it Magtech, Wolf Gold or PMC, you had to buy the ammo from us to shoot it.