How does Law Enforcement manage to get by with M&P15s?

[Entryteam]

When my Dept. finally implemented a patrol rifle program, since I'd been clamoring about it for years and had been the loudest, I got to do it. And we went with the S W. I gotta say, giving that thing to a batch of rookie riflemen, I had trepidation. BUT... we had ZERO issues with the 60 or so we handed out/trained on that wasn't either shitty mag related, or operator error. The rifles, themselves, were just fine. YMMV, but in my experience, they're good to go.

[C-grunt]

I was issued a "just as good" Bushmaster in 2008. Our 40 hour certification course was several thousand rounds. We also shoot roughly 1000 rounds a year during our quarterly training/qual days.

My Bushmaster broke several times. Springs and actual parts in the trigger group died. It also ate gas rings every 1500 rounds or so. It had a tight chamber and would pop primers on hot high round count days when we were using actual M193.

I never had to actually shoot that gun in a real world event, but I religiously trained handgun transitions when I carried that rifle.

My rifle wasn't the only one with that issue either
Pretty much all of them exhibited problems when pushed hard. So much so that the department traded them out for Colts after 4 years at a large loss. The Colt I got was great for over 10 years and 14k rounds. We recently switched the 11.5 DD rifles with suppressors.

[markm]

I agree with lysander. The M&Ps aren't terrible carbines.

Now the S&W sport ARs are complete shit. I kid we know had one and at least 4 things went wrong in the first few months. Mag catch broke. Buffer roll pin drifted out, and a couple of other things too. Had he paid for the stuff I fixed on the gun, he'd have been out the money to just get a 6920.

[TMS951]

They only get shot 50 rounds a year and statistically have a very low likely hood of ever being used in the line of duty?

[Striker6]

They only get shot 50 rounds a year and statistically have a very low likely hood of ever being used in the line of duty?

Sounds like the majority of privately owned ARs (this community excluded) lol

[HKGuns]

Coincidentally, I was just talking today with a retired Kalifornia C.O.P. who "Escaped" to Idaho. (His words)

He was telling me he wanted Colt rifles for his troopers but he didn't have the budget for them. He went on to say he "settled" on M&P's that he could afford.

He was real clear he'd have preferred to have Colt rifles.

[pag23]

Do you consider your property tax too low?

I don't have local PD...but the staties that patrol use to have SigM400 Treads I heard. Not every dept needs KAC15 but there should be input from the end user to avoid Carbon15s

[Screwball]

Rifle usage in L/E is not as common and training is more emphasized on handgun. That being said, majority of L/E are undertrained. I did an MP5 class this past March and I put more rounds thru my duty Glock than I did with agency training the prior two years combined. We aim to qualify two times a year on handguns (our course of fire is 46 rounds… one practice, two qualifications for score… total of 138 rounds twice a year at a minimum, but has been the norm)… funding is still messed up from COVID and we have received waivers on qualifications at least twice from the “end” of COVID.

Long guns… it’s even worse. We are supposed to qualify once a year on long guns. I forget the numbers off the top of my head, but it isn’t even 60 rounds in that course of fire and you only do it again if you fail. We have Colt M4s (multiple M16 variants that were built into M4s, a few rebuilt when BCM had the contract to keep guns running), with one or two 6920s sprinkled in. We had 14” 870s, but they were pulled by the FO due to “liability.”

Last time our officers shot rifles in agency training… June 2021. Yea… I say that’s a huge problem!

Fortunately… I tend to shoot/train outside of work more regularly than most of my coworkers. I know a few officers who wouldn’t remember how to get a rifle out of the rack… let alone run it.

Northern border ports aren’t a huge priority, so I don’t think we will see the Geissele rifles until the tail end of the contract (5 years). I liked the 11.5” option, being I had to run a standard M4 where I would have loved a few inches off the end (working around cars, booths, concrete walls). Last few times rifles came out were after the Lewiston shooting, the Rainbow Bridge accident (a lot of officers were calling terrorist attack) and the April eclipse, in the off chance of a potential active shooter.

For our use, could S&W work? Probably… but we are fortunate to be one component of our agency, with BP and AMO making up the other two sworn components. While we may need rifles from time to time… BP needs stuff that will work. S&W may work for us, doubt it would for them.

Other agencies I’ve dealt with… I’ve seen DPMS rifles in trunks years prior. Did they work? Yep. Would I suggest them if someone is spending their hard earned money? Probably not. Bushmasters were huge years back. My Colt 6920 is actually from a NJ department that AIM picked up.

AIM does get a bunch of L/E surplus, to include rifles. Most of those who buy them realize that they may get a rifle with finish wear from riding in a rack for years, but it likely will be like new where it matters. I replaced two parts on my 6920; buffer spring and gas tube. Spring is just so I know how many rounds are on that one (I do similar on any used gun I buy). The gas tube… the bulb looked worn, so swapping it was easy piece of mind. Gun has been 100%, so I guess I did well.

[T2C]

I was issued a "just as good" Bushmaster in 2008. Our 40 hour certification course was several thousand rounds. We also shoot roughly 1000 rounds a year during our quarterly training/qual days.

My Bushmaster broke several times. Springs and actual parts in the trigger group died. It also ate gas rings every 1500 rounds or so. It had a tight chamber and would pop primers on hot high round count days when we were using actual M193.

I never had to actually shoot that gun in a real world event, but I religiously trained handgun transitions when I carried that rifle.

My rifle wasn't the only one with that issue either
Pretty much all of them exhibited problems when pushed hard. So much so that the department traded them out for Colts after 4 years at a large loss. The Colt I got was great for over 10 years and 14k rounds. We recently switched the 11.5 DD rifles with suppressors.

Your agency has a much larger ammunition budget than any agency in our part of the U.S. That is impressive to say the least.

[Echo40]

I'm seeing an interesting assortment of statements on the subject, but the consensus seems to be that LEOs don't shoot enough for any of the parts on an M&P15 to break, which begs the question, how many rounds would an M&P15 fire before parts would begin to break, and how close is it to the average round count which would cause parts to break on a Colt 6920?