Federal ND55664 overruns

[indianalex01]

Seems to be some kind of contract overrun or defect training ammo being dumped on the market. The main feature is it seems to be a non-bonded training analogue of the FBI ammo

Features:

Ideal for target practice and training
Accurate and reliable
Non-duty bonded training analog for LE duty ammo



https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026091053?pid=981215


Thank you to the "themonk" for excellent documentation in another thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...45#post3101245






To quote myself from the other thread I suspect this just an unbonded TBBC but Im not 100% sure, other opinions and observations are welcome, I also suspect this would make excellent budget defensive ammo if my suspicions are correct and this would perform similarly to Mk318 which basically a non-bonded TBBC.

I feel like atleast a water jug test would be in order if someone has this ammo and is willing to do it.

Since you invited other opinions, I worked at Federal for years. TBBC as you mentioned is a bonded bullet. When you say something is just an unbounded TBBC, you are passing disinformation. There is no such thing as an unbonded TBBC. TBBC is its own bullet. If a bullet isn’t bonded, it doesn’t make it an unbonded TBBC. It is a different round. On to the MK318. It is in no way related to the TBBC. It is a OTM barrier blind round. It is a BTHP. TBBC is not. Mk318 is has a hollow cavity with a solid bottom half made for penetration. TBBC is it own bullet. You are creating a little confusion by the way you are saying these other rounds are versions of the TBBC.

[vicious_cb]

Since you invited other opinions, I worked at Federal for years. TBBC as you mentioned is a bonded bullet. When you say something is just an unbounded TBBC, you are passing disinformation. There is no such thing as an unbonded TBBC. TBBC is its own bullet. If a bullet isn’t bonded, it doesn’t make it an unbonded TBBC. It is a different round. On to the MK318. It is in no way related to the TBBC. It is a OTM barrier blind round. It is a BTHP. TBBC is not. Mk318 is has a hollow cavity with a solid bottom half made for penetration. TBBC is it own bullet. You are creating a little confusion by the way you are saying these other rounds are versions of the TBBC.

Thanks for the info, pretty amazing that we would need to have a former Federal employee needing to clarify their product line since Federal is so forthcoming when describing whats actually in these factory seconds that we need to speculate on what projectile they are using.

Also do you have any info on the history behind on the mk318 projectile lineage? Since the cutaway of the original SOST mk318 projectile shows alot in common with the Trophy bonded bear TIP line? Is it common lineage or just coincidence they share a resemblance?

[vicious_cb]

On to the MK318. It is in no way related to the TBBC.

Since no response was provided, Ill let these pictures speak for themselves:





Since we are speaking like Dr.Fauci I guess the relationship between these two rounds is just "disinformation" or "conspiracy theory".

[indianalex01]

Since no response was provided, Ill let these pictures speak for themselves:





Since we are speaking like Dr.Fauci I guess the relationship between these two rounds is just "disinformation" or "conspiracy theory".

Again, you are wrong. TBBC 62gn (LE223T3) is not tipped and is a flat based bullet. Also it is bonded. MK318 is not bonded and has a Boat tail. As a matter of fact the Mk318 Mod1 doesn’t even have lead in it. Completely different bullets and how they perform. LE223T3 does not and was not made to frag. The M318 is made to frag. The TBBC you have pictured is not a 223 bullet.

[indianalex01]

Thanks for the info, pretty amazing that we would need to have a former Federal employee needing to clarify their product line since Federal is so forthcoming when describing whats actually in these factory seconds that we need to speculate on what projectile they are using.

Also do you have any info on the history behind on the mk318 projectile lineage? Since the cutaway of the original SOST mk318 projectile shows alot in common with the Trophy bonded bear TIP line? Is it common lineage or just coincidence they share a resemblance?

Most bullets with lead in them look similar. It’s what you don’t see. For example the Federal LE223T3 bullet is bonded. It holds together and and expands when it hits flesh. It’s made to shoot through glass and doors while still expanding. The Mk 318 Mod 0/1 are made to frag on impact creating massive wound channels. The solid copper shank penetrating deeply. The Mod 0 has lead in it. The Mod 1 (Silver nickel plated) has no lead at all. These are open tip match bullets. The bullets shown in another post are not the Federal LE223T3. They are a hunting load. The LE223T3 has a lead all the way to the tip and not a poly tip and or a hollow point. I am just trying to clarify some disinformation.

https://usarmorment.com/223-remingto...se-p-3069.html

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/prod...leadt556tnb1nl

[vicious_cb]

Most bullets with lead in them look similar. It’s what you don’t see. For example the Federal LE223T3 bullet is bonded. It holds together and and expands when it hits flesh. It’s made to shoot through glass and doors while still expanding. The Mk 318 Mod 0/1 are made to frag on impact creating massive wound channels. The solid copper shank penetrating deeply. The Mod 0 has lead in it. The Mod 1 (Silver nickel plated) has no lead at all. These are open tip match bullets. The bullets shown in another post are not the Federal LE223T3. They are a hunting load. The LE223T3 has a lead all the way to the tip and not a poly tip and or a hollow point. I am just trying to clarify some disinformation.

https://usarmorment.com/223-remingto...se-p-3069.html

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/prod...leadt556tnb1nl

Well we'll just agree to disagree then. My original supposition still stands that mk318 mod 0(not the nickle plated abortion mod 1) is a riff off the Trophy line in particular the Trophy Tipped line since its not a stretch that Federal who makes both would use an existing bullet design, repurpose it and make it economical by not bonding the core. Nor does your status as a former Federal employee merit any extra credibility to your statement since no evidence was provided other than your own option.

Again, you are wrong. TBBC 62gn (LE223T3) is not tipped and is a flat based bullet. Also it is bonded. MK318 is not bonded and has a Boat tail. As a matter of fact the Mk318 Mod1 doesn’t even have lead in it. Completely different bullets and how they perform. LE223T3 does not and was not made to frag. The M318 is made to frag. The TBBC you have pictured is not a 223 bullet.

?

Just a reminder since, of course as a former Federal employee you would be highly familiar with their product line.

[Alpha-17]

Well we'll just agree to disagree then. My original supposition still stands that mk318 mod 0(not the nickle plated abortion mod 1) is a riff off the Trophy line in particular the Trophy Tipped line since its not a stretch that Federal who makes both would use an existing bullet design, repurpose it and make it economical by not bonding the core. Nor does your status as a former Federal employee merit any extra credibility to your statement since no evidence was provided other than your own option.



?

Just a reminder since, of course as a former Federal employee you would be highly familiar with their product line.

He didn't say that TBBC was in .223, only that the picture you posted wasn't of a .223 bullet. I have to agree with him that the cut away of the bullets makes them look far less similar when you start looking at the details and less at "copper jacket and base, lead core."


And what's your problem with Mk 318 Mod 1? By all accounts, it's a good round.