Hk 416 user feedback?

**Arctic1** · 02-15-13, 04:34

On another board I frequent, there was a discussion about the utility of select fire capability in an assault rifle. I am of the opinion that well aimed rapid semi-automatic fire is the way to go.

Anyways, I referenced this video of me shooting the 1/2 & 1/2 drill:

FILE0061 - YouTube

and said that I was going to shoot the drill in FA as well, too see what the results were. Here are the vids are:

Run 1, fully automatic, 10 round burst:

FILE0075 - YouTube

20 meters: 1st shot @ 1.33, total time 1.86
10 meters: 1st shot @ 1.13, total time 1.66
5 meters: 1st shot @ 0.98, total time 1.50

Run 2, fully automatic, short bursts:

FILE0076 - YouTube

20 meters: 1st shot @ 1.15, total time 3.04
10 meters: 1st shot @ 1.13, total time 2.66
5 meters: 1st shot @ 1.04, total time 2.00

I am faster with my first shot, and more accurate with semi-auto fire overall. With FA, I get shots down range faster obviously, but if the target was moving or smaller I think it would be more difficult with FA. The same with engaging more than one target.

In addition, it was a bit awkward flipping the safety to FA, and I believe that is the cause of the increased time use.

You will score hits, but you will be faster with the first shot and more accurate with SA.

**Tuukka** · 02-15-13, 06:02

Dano,

With regards to the newer generation HK416s, the adjustable gas regulator really makes a difference in the cycling rate / RPM.

I posted the figures from our testing earlier in the NFA subforum

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=111979

I believe there were some issues with the AGR in Norway, Arctic1 can probably shed more facts on this, but HK has already updated the design in the HK416A5.

Also, you mentioned the HK416s being louder, yes that is true at the gas block area and to the side of the muzzle.

In our testing comparing to DI operating M4s, the HK's are actually quieter at the shooters right ear as the ejection port doesnt have an open gas tube bleeding gas.

Usually the M4's have measured c. 142-144 dB ( A peak ) at the right ear, the lower figure is with a heavier buffer and spring.

Whereas the HK's have been c. 136-138 db ( A peak ) on the 14.5" and c. 139-140 dB ( A peak ) on the 10"

Overall the HK416 / HK417 have been quite a good performers in our testing, however we have not put the same round counts through them as an SMU unit would over a period of time.

Regards!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors

**Arctic1** · 02-18-13, 13:34

Did some shooting today; a reactive target lane and some balloon shooting at ~300 meters:

Balloon shooting:

Target size:

Target view:

Shooter view film:
http://youtu.be/7c8pS9F1nDc

Target view film:
http://youtu.be/n7vfGe3kH-I

These are of the same run.

Reactive target lane:

This drill being shot was a result of the discussion on SA vs FA capability mentioned in a previous post.

The drill didn't provide any concrete results as far as time to target engagement is concerned, or hits on target. The only thing that could be measured was total time for completion, and I don't find that relevant.

You can watch the vids for yourselves, and maybe come to a conclusion as to the utility of FA. My conclusion to follow later in the post.

I shot it 4 different ways:

Aimpoint - FA
Aimpoint - SA
BUIS - FA
BUIS - SA

The drill, as described in the marksmanship manual, states gear and amount of ammunition:

-2nd line; I shot it in 4th line (ruck)
-30 rounds distributed between 2 mags, I had 15 in each

My gear as worn when I shot the drills:

Shooting this drill in my 4th line gear really confirmed why I hate fighting with a ruck on my back; it's completely useless. Especially uphill, as this particlar range requires.

The videos:

Aimpoint - FA
http://youtu.be/mdVw6kyDYTI

Aimpoint - SA
http://youtu.be/MbRofjXoGx0

BUIS - FA
http://youtu.be/Qw2sO202ZS4

NOTE: As you can see, my rear BUIS is not up when I engaged the first target. It was most likely knocked down as I was donning my pack. I engaged the target by using a semi-point shoot/front sight reference technique.

BUIS - SA:
http://youtu.be/sjxGk51aCHI

Conclusions:

-The Aimpoint is, in my eyes, superior to the BUIS. It is faster to track onto a target, it is easier to stay on target and getting a good enough sight picture is less demanding. From 10 meters and in, a highly trained shooter might not notice significant differences. For beginner/novice shooters, a red dot will provide better results faster. The point shooting method was inadvertently needed on the first target during my BUIS-FA run, and clearly showed that it is crap. For shooting on the move a red dot is superior.

-You can have a positive effect on target utilizing both FA and SA modes of fire. However, ammo consumption is markedly higher on FA; I only changed magazines when shooting FA. The effect of the additional rounds when firing bursts is debatable. My view is that I can achieve the same effect by shooting rapid single shots.

I shot all the drills to the best of my ability, and did not try to influence the results to support my preference; something that should be quite clear from my horrible shooting at target 4 during my Aimpoint - SA run. And the next time I shoot this drill, the ruck stays in the car!

**Alexander** · 02-18-13, 23:02

.........................

**Arctic1** · 03-14-13, 13:02

On my last outing, describe above, I shot a few 100 meter groups, to see what kind of accuracy I could get.

Shot from the prone, supported on a ruck, using an Aimpoint CompM4 With 3X magnifier:

Group 1:

Group 2:

Group 3:

Group 4:

These four groups were my last for the day, and when I returned home and started doing my maintenance, I found that the handguard was loose. Don't know if that had any effect. I have over 10k through my rifle.

-------

I went out today, to shoot some more groups for accuracy, to see if I could shoot better than last time. The weather wasn't really ideal for shooting at range, but I was able to shoot four groups before it got real bad.

It would seem that my performance on the previous groups I shot was due to me sucking, and not the gun.

The previous groups were shot in full gear, the groups I shot today were shot slick. I also felt that my rest/support was a bit better today. I did however not use my 3x magnifier today, and shot better for some strange reason.

Group 1:

Group 2:

Group 3:

Group 4:

Group 3 was shot a bit fast, as I felt I had a good return on target after every shot. I am a bit high on all, due to zeroing at 50/200. Maybe a bit too high, going to look into that.

**Koshinn** · 03-15-13, 04:58

Originally Posted by Arctic1

On my last outing, describe above, I shot a few 100 meter groups, to see what kind of accuracy I could get.

Shot from the prone, supported on a ruck, using an Aimpoint CompM4 With 3X magnifier:

Group 1:

Group 2:

Group 3:

Group 4:

These four groups were my last for the day, and when I returned home and started doing my maintenance, I found that the handguard was loose. Don't know if that had any effect. I have over 10k through my rifle.

-------

I went out today, to shoot some more groups for accuracy, to see if I could shoot better than last time. The weather wasn't really ideal for shooting at range, but I was able to shoot four groups before it got real bad.

It would seem that my performance on the previous groups I shot was due to me sucking, and not the gun.

The previous groups were shot in full gear, the groups I shot today were shot slick. I also felt that my rest/support was a bit better today. I did however not use my 3x magnifier today, and shot better for some strange reason.

Group 1:

Group 2:

Group 3:

Group 4:

Group 3 was shot a bit fast, as I felt I had a good return on target after every shot. I am a bit high on all, due to zeroing at 50/200. Maybe a bit too high, going to look into that.

What ammo did you use?

Also, perhaps you were just less fatigued on the second day which led to better groups.

**Arctic1** · 03-15-13, 06:15

I am using our standard ammo, called NM255 (62 grain). Accuracy acceptance is 2 MOA (confirmed during testing using guns with magnified optics, S&B 1.5-6x42).