For those wanting a TAVOR

[Littlelebowski]

The Izzies have been fighting close quarters for a long time dude. They are more battle hardened than most of the US Military and for a conscripsion based force, are very proffesional.

Jesus Christ. I mean, have you heard of "Iraq" or "Afghanistan?"

Hands down, the stupidest, most uninformed post I've seen in a long ****ing time. As in you should be embarrassed that you wrote such drivel.

[Littlelebowski]

The Izzies are over rated and got their asses handed to them last time in Southern Lebanon by Hezbolla. Many experts have said they are in need of a Professional Volunteer Army.

Thanks. Was getting ready to point out modern history to Turret Gunner.

[TurretGunner]

Jesus Christ. I mean, have you heard of "Iraq" or "Afghanistan?"

Hands down, the stupidest, most uninformed post I've seen in a long ****ing time. As in you should be embarrassed that you wrote such drivel.

Take a look at my handle.......

90% + of the Us military is not combat arms. Most people in afgan and Iraq are fobits, the most dangerous event is breaking an ankle on Salsa night or running to the DFAC before they run out of Lobster.

Outside of the Marines, you are your MOS/RATE first, and a soldier second. The training, mentality and day to day enviroment all contribute to the average american soldier/marine/zoomie/squid not being a true warrior.

The Izzies have been engaged in constant warefare, in their own backyard for a long time. You take it much more seriosuly when your home town is getting rocketed, mortared, and bombed, than some distant 3rd world shit hole.

And FYI, Hezbolah was not fighting conventialy. Just about every country outside of the US with its combined arms, intel, and quick strike ability would have been in the same situation. They could have brought down fire and brimstone, thus turning EVERYONE in Lebon against them and willing to take up arms. How smart would that be as they have to live next to the ****ers? They were well funded and trained from Iran, its not like a bunch of goat farmers kicked the shit out of the izzies.

I guess the US Military must be shit too since we cant seem to win in either Iraq or Afganistan. Fighting insurgents and fanantics is such a easy job...............

[TurretGunner]

No, that's the way it works in Switzerland. Respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about.



Are you actually being serious? There are plenty of weapons that do not need it. If you shoot a conventional layout firearm weak side, it is not going to spit brass in your face. The F2000 is a bullpup where designers understood this was a problem for bullpups, which is why they made a system where brass ejects further forward. The Tavor is one of the weapons, that depending on how you shoulder that rifle, needs it. Here is a picture of a guy who has a high hold.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TQLc7yFQ7R...0/INT_7324.jpg

There is potential that he'd get brass in the chin if he went weak side, depending on the issue that we were discussing: if they have accommodated the system is such a way that it ejects forward. If you don't like the discussion and we're all pussies, you don't have to participate. All those guys getting brass to the face from their Glocks must be pussies too.



There is a difference between what you perceive as needed and what actually happens. But please prove me wrong. Perhaps show me videos of line infantry soldiers practicing using both shoulders with Tavors. Some kind of proof. I look forward to it.

You are correct I was thinking of the swiss.

At any rate, The FS2000 ejects out the front (which can become jammed) and is not an example of a weapon that you change the firing port on. How many countries use the FS2000?

You are seriously ****ing delusional if you don't think that they shoot with their weak side. You clearly were never in the military nor have done and MOUT training.

No one in their right ****ing mind is going to expose their silhouette to shoot around a corner on their weak side.

They must not have left corners in Israel for the right handed shooters a visa versa.

Or wait, when they come to a red zone that doesnt mesh well with their current ejection config, they break out the tools, spare bolt and change over before they can clear the area.


Or maybe they should just stand on their ****ing heads so they can shoot their weak side without worrying about a couple pieces of brass hitting their body armor.

I'm not going to do your research for you. Just beacuse you can't readily find a video of a small countries military shooting in a certain config, doesn't mean shit. Common sense is clearly, not very common.

[Hot Sauce]

You are seriously ****ing delusional if you don't think that they shoot with their weak side. You clearly were never in the military nor have done and MOUT training.

No one in their right ****ing mind is going to expose their silhouette to shoot around a corner on their weak side.

They must not have left corners in Israel for the right handed shooters a visa versa.

Or wait, when they come to a red zone that doesnt mesh well with their current ejection config, they break out the tools, spare bolt and change over before they can clear the area.


Or maybe they should just stand on their ****ing heads so they can shoot their weak side without worrying about a couple pieces of brass hitting their body armor.

I'm not going to do your research for you. Just beacuse you can't readily find a video of a small countries military shooting in a certain config, doesn't mean shit. Common sense is clearly, not very common.

Like I expected, you went on a rant to deflect (quite ironic actually since we're talking about deflecting spent cases). You deflected because you have nothing more than conjecture. You have no idea how someone else trains, yet you feel yourself an expert to comment on it.

You don't have to do my research for me, smart guy. And you would not be so good at it, I think, since you can't actually back up your point with anything further than mirror imaging your own thoughts onto a foreign military. Its one of the most common logical fallacies.

I'm seriously delusional huh? Well I hope you say that from a place of personal experience. You trained or worked side by side with them, right? Or are still running on nothing but assumptions.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but try to reason through your argument like an adult. Which means assumptions are not evidence.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -Christopher Hitchens

[TV-PressPass]

I'd like to weigh in on this briefly.

You can shoot weak sided. I do.

Check 2:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6eG_xuQDcg

But the Israeli's don't. I asked an IWI employee at Shot Show about transitions and slings. He explained that the IDF does not transition shoulders and used this leaning-back-twisting trick that I got on film of how they approach weak sided barriers.

[Hot Sauce]

90% + of the Us military is not combat arms. Most people in afgan and Iraq are fobits, the most dangerous event is breaking an ankle on Salsa night or running to the DFAC before they run out of Lobster.

Outside of the Marines, you are your MOS/RATE first, and a soldier second. The training, mentality and day to day enviroment all contribute to the average american soldier/marine/zoomie/squid not being a true warrior.

What makes you think that any other modern western military has a tooth-to-tail ratio that differs too much from ours?

[Littlelebowski]

8 years, Marine Corps Infantry and your Israeli worship is clearly based on reputation, not experience.

Take a look at my handle.......

90% + of the Us military is not combat arms. Most people in afgan and Iraq are fobits, the most dangerous event is breaking an ankle on Salsa night or running to the DFAC before they run out of Lobster.

Outside of the Marines, you are your MOS/RATE first, and a soldier second. The training, mentality and day to day enviroment all contribute to the average american soldier/marine/zoomie/squid not being a true warrior.

The Izzies have been engaged in constant warefare, in their own backyard for a long time. You take it much more seriosuly when your home town is getting rocketed, mortared, and bombed, than some distant 3rd world shit hole.

And FYI, Hezbolah was not fighting conventialy. Just about every country outside of the US with its combined arms, intel, and quick strike ability would have been in the same situation. They could have brought down fire and brimstone, thus turning EVERYONE in Lebon against them and willing to take up arms. How smart would that be as they have to live next to the ****ers? They were well funded and trained from Iran, its not like a bunch of goat farmers kicked the shit out of the izzies.

I guess the US Military must be shit too since we cant seem to win in either Iraq or Afganistan. Fighting insurgents and fanantics is such a easy job...............

[Hot Sauce]

I'd like to weigh in on this briefly.

You can shoot weak sided. I do.

Check 2:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6eG_xuQDcg

But the Israeli's don't. I asked an IWI employee at Shot Show about transitions and slings. He explained that the IDF does not transition shoulders and used this leaning-back-twisting trick that I got on film of how they approach weak sided barriers.

Cool, hands on experience. Do you find that you need to hold the rifle a bit lower when switching to weak side or do you use the same exact cheek weld? It wasn't completely clear to me from your video.

[Littlelebowski]

To even ponder that the Israeli's conscripts are better than our forces with a majority of the SNCO,NCO, and officer leadership having multiple combat deployments (not against kids throwing rocks and getting their asses kicked in 08) is showing an unwillingness to embrace reality.

Of course, I don't understand the Russophiles either.....