This little piggy... got dead

[Grizzly16]

Now this is pig killin! https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=91533

[SteyrAUG]

Steyr, you keep saying the ones you've "seen". Have you actually taken an animal or more than one and had to make that judgement call yourself?

Yes, but I mostly was speaking of better hunters than myself. I was pretty young when I did most of my hunting. But even the things like deer that I have taken were done pretty close with a .308 or better. I never got good enough for a single shot drop, but I didn't have any haul ass on me either.

What I'm having a hard time with is your use of words like "needless suffering" because I shot an animal more than once, even though it only ran a few yards before expiring. Then you say a large game animal being shot with a rifle & running a short distance is OK. How is one "needless suffering" & the other OK? It seems that the only distinction is what weapon was used. Considering the results and the particular circumstances involved, I would do the same thing if the opportunity presented itself again.

It isn't really the shot more than once part. Honestly, if you didn't get it good the first time you HAVE to hit it again or it suffers. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear. I was pretty much talking about HAVING to shoot something more than once because there is no way 9mm is going to get it done with one shot.

[mtdawg169]

Yes, but I mostly was speaking of better hunters than myself. I was pretty young when I did most of my hunting. But even the things like deer that I have taken were done pretty close with a .308 or better. I never got good enough for a single shot drop, but I didn't have any haul ass on me either.




It isn't really the shot more than once part. Honestly, if you didn't get it good the first time you HAVE to hit it again or it suffers. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear. I was pretty much talking about HAVING to shoot something more than once because there is no way 9mm is going to get it done with one shot.

Well that's where you are mistaken in this case. The hog was hit in both lungs on shot #1. He was dead pork walking. The last two rounds just expedited the process. In fact, I've had hogs mortally hit with much larger rifle caliber rounds that still required follow up shots and not because of poor shot placement. Don't take the animal's natural stamina & toughness for granted.

[SteyrAUG]

Well that's where you are mistaken in this case. The hog was hit in both lungs on shot #1. He was dead pork walking. The last two rounds just expedited the process. In fact, I've had hogs mortally hit with much larger rifle caliber rounds that still required follow up shots and not because of poor shot placement. Don't take the animal's natural stamina & toughness for granted.

There was nothing wrong with the placement of your shot. The round itself simply wasn't enough to do the job quickly, thus requiring two more shots and lots of running around in pain.

Again, my sole criticism is I do not think you brought an adequate firearm / round combination to do the job. And any hunter would have encountered the same difficulty if they tried to do it with 115 gr. 9mm FMJ which is why I stated "I" personally wouldn't have done it.

And I am well aware of what a animal is capable of sustaining, which is again why I'd never use something like 115 gr. 9mm FMJ. I think if you were going to use a handgun that .45 is probably the minimum a hunter should use and I'd personally prefer .357 or .44 magnum.

That said, I've seen LOTS worse from people. But I don't consider those folks ethical hunters, I have a hard time qualifying some of them as hunters period. Some people are simply out there to kill things. And maybe it is because of them that I try and stay so far to the other end of the spectrum.

Might also just be that you are young (I'm guessing not stating). I did some things in my youth simply to see if I was capable of doing it. As a result I put a higher priority on seeing if I could make a difficult shot rather than making sure I had a quick kill. As I got older I became less impressed with the shot I made and more regretful of the avoidable suffering that resulted.

[mtdawg169]

T

Might also just be that you are young (I'm guessing not stating). I did some things in my youth simply to see if I was capable of doing it. As a result I put a higher priority on seeing if I could make a difficult shot rather than making sure I had a quick kill. As I got older I became less impressed with the shot I made and more regretful of the avoidable suffering that resulted.

This would be an incorrect assumption.

I understand your opinion, but stand by my actions in this situation. I would not have shot at the animal if I was not confident that I could make a killing shot at the range involved. The caliber may not have been ideal, but it proved to be more than adequate. Your perception of "suffering" is just that, a perception. In reality, it was a very quick & efficient kill, with very little suffering involved. I suppose if you were an active hunter, your expectations would be more in line with the reality of what happens when you shoot an animal. I have seen them do all kinds of things and no encounter is ever the same. I can tell you that this was very quick, in my experience. Hogs are tough, they will run surprising distances when hit or charge a hunter at close range and neither is uncommon.

[WillBrink]

Considering the results and the particular circumstances involved, I would do the same thing if the opportunity presented itself again.

You used the tool you had on hand (vs the tool you may have preferred) and it worked perfectly. Good on you I say. Here's a vid of hog taken out with an air gun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugyO7dcF1n8

This one is more impressive as it's at distance and not a cornered animal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUUCL...eature=related

Obviously, perfect set up for that shot, but shows shot placement an essential variable, and you clearly achieved that too.

[mtdawg169]

Thanks Will.

[Watrdawg]

Maybe I'm wrong but something I have been wondering about in this case. mtdawg169 shot the hog with a FMJ bullet. Couldn't this be compared to using a solid bullet on dangerous game. It sounds as if the 9mm FMJ's behaved like a solid would. If I remember right the first shot went through to the opposite side and broke the leg of the hog. The other 2 shots behaved the same also. Now I'm not advocating the use of 9mm FMJ as a hunting round but in this case, luckily, the round behaved like a solid would on a Cape Buffalo. I know i may be reaching but the similarities are there.

[SteyrAUG]

This would be an incorrect assumption.

I understand your opinion, but stand by my actions in this situation. I would not have shot at the animal if I was not confident that I could make a killing shot at the range involved. The caliber may not have been ideal, but it proved to be more than adequate. Your perception of "suffering" is just that, a perception. In reality, it was a very quick & efficient kill, with very little suffering involved. I suppose if you were an active hunter, your expectations would be more in line with the reality of what happens when you shoot an animal. I have seen them do all kinds of things and no encounter is ever the same. I can tell you that this was very quick, in my experience. Hogs are tough, they will run surprising distances when hit or charge a hunter at close range and neither is uncommon.

One correction, I was an active hunter for decades. My values and perception are completely in line with the reality of the hunting I did at that time.

We simply seem to have different values and ideas regarding hunting and what we each consider a clean quick kill.

[mtdawg169]

One correction, I was an active hunter for decades. My values and perception are completely in line with the reality of the hunting I did at that time.

We simply seem to have different values and ideas regarding hunting and what we each consider a clean quick kill.

Fair enough.