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Thread: Lower Receiver Comparisons

  1. #11
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    Looks like Rob_s intended for this to be a living thread, so here's my contribution to the knowledge base.

    Inspired by recent pricing, I ordered 3 of the Surplus Ammo & Arms stripped lowers from AIM. Soon thereafter, Palmetto State Armory started an irresistable $50 sale on their marked lowers as well. After shipping and transfer, my final cost was $72.28 for each SA&A and $65.33 for each PSA.

    Now that I finally have both sets of lowers in hand, a comparison might be helpful or interesting.

    Just to disclose where I'm coming from, I know that this review compares a variety of inconsequential cosmetic minutia. To be clear, I'm not building any kind of safe queen on a $50 lower. I only present this information as a resource, for those readers to whom these details are of interest. I also apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge of the correct nomenclature (what is that ring where the receiver extension mounts called anyway??!?)

    Corrections and comments welcome.


    SA&A (top); PSA (bottom)

    Both lowers are reputedly made by Aero Precision. In fact, when I contacted AP on Facebook regarding the SA&A lower, AP responded and accepted the compliment. However, there are several differences that make me question whether both lowers are from the same manufacturer.

    MARKINGS


    SA&A (left); PSA (right)

    The lettering and pictograms on the SA&A are markedly (no pun intended) deeper and more distinct than the PSA. Also, the pictograms are larger on the SA&A.


    SA&A (top); PSA (bottom)

    Note the keyhole marking on the SA&A immediately in front of the trigger well, absent on the PSA. My AR arcana is weak, but it is my understanding that this indicates that the raw forging came from Cerro Forge, an established and respected maker.

    TOP


    SA&A (left); PSA (right)

    Above you can see a difference in the shape of the void adjacent to the selector holes. The SA&A has a distinct bulge machined in. This does not seem to be a high-shelf/low-shelf issue. Any ideas on the function of these two shapes?



    SA&A (left); PSA (right)

    Another minor difference is the shape of the reinforcing ring around the receiver extension mount.

    ANODIZING

    The tone and finish of both the PSA and SA&A lowers is very similar. Side-by-side and in indirect sunlight, the PSA seems very, very slightly more matte and a somewhat colder/bluer tone than the SA&A. However, this isn't to say that the SA&A is glossy. The differences are very slight and are not especially visible in the photos. Both seem a little more matte than my LMT lower or BCM uppers, but those have all seen a lot of oil, dirt, dust, powder, abrasion, etc. I mention this just for the record, since the obsession with color-matching uppers and lowers seems IMHO a huge affectation, up there with Accuwedges, color fill, upper-to-lower slop, "does this company's coyote match Magpul's FDE" and other such non-shooter interests.

    I hate to note it, but all 3 SA&A lowers have several areas of thin anodizing where the silver-toned metal is showing through. I know that anodizing is neither spray nor paint, but the subjective effect is a hurried spray paint job. To be fair, all areas of poor anodizing are in places that would not be visible once assembled.

    All three SA&A lowers have metal showing through between the front and back trigger guard ears, around the PG near where the selector detent spring inserts, inside the bolt catch channel, inside that mysterious shallow hole where the receiver end plate covers, and inside the well near the takedown pin. The PSA lowers are heavily and evenly coated in all of these areas.

    Selected detail shots of the gaps in the SA&A anodizing:




    MACHINING

    Both are very cleanly machined, at least as good as my LMT and much cleaner than many Colts I have handled. IME a good place to look for this is on the front pivot lugs, the front of the magwell, and inside the trigger well. If anything, the SA&A is slightly smoother in the front pivot lugs and on the "ceiling" of the trigger well. In the curved seam behind the grip (what I call the "beavertail" area for lack of a better term) the PSA is smoother, where the SA&A displays a somewhat prominent flash.


    SA&A (left); PSA (right)

    MAGWELL

    The only potentially significant difference between the two is the flaring of the magwell. Both lowers easily drop PMags, with the PSA being slightly more generous fit. However, the PSA magwell is significantly more flared than the SA&A, even on the front wall which you don't see too often.




    Both pics: SA&A (left); PSA (right)


    One other functional difference I found was that the channel for the takedown pin detent spring is threaded for a 4-40 set screw on the SA&A. This is a nice touch, but one that I will not utilize since I don't change receiver end plates too often and because I am not completely comfortable with trimming a coil or two off of the spring to make it work. The PSA is not threaded for this set screw.

    SUMMARY

    Both are very nice receivers. I've only assembled an LPK on one of the SA&A so far - everything installed easily and the lower fits and runs great with either of my BCM uppers. I expect the PSA to accommodate an LPK just fine. However, the much more generously flared magwell on the PSA is a deal-clincher for me so for my use, the PSA lowers will be getting the better furniture and more frequent use.
    Last edited by tradja; 07-14-11 at 16:01.

  2. #12
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    Nice summary. FWIW Aero Precision lowers, those with the AP roll marks, have the keyhole forge marks on them.

  3. #13
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    This is from an old thread that was some what informational.

    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    Receiver FAQ Version 0.1 (please note this is still rough, and is not nearly finished)

    I live in a ban state, so no luck getting Bushmaster, Armalite, DPMS or Colt into the mix. My apologies.

    I see a lot of threads asking about Quality and Suggestions for which brand of receiver any particular person would buy, so I thought I might write this info I've posted in a number of places to have it's own thread.

    There are currently FOUR manufacturers that produce the majority of lower receivers for the AR market. MMS, CMT, LMT and LAR receive orders from many licensed manufacturers who obtain an ATF variance to have them cut and logo receivers on their behalf. JVP and Superior Arms cut for a couple of different companies as well, but currently I will only focus on the four main manufacturers differences.

    Mega, Stag (CMT), LAR and Barrett (LMT):



    Not all inclusive, and a few brands have had more than one manufacturer cut their receivers. Many companies receive CMT and LMT cuts in the white and finish them themselves. I have not seen a LAR or MMS cut that was finished by a third party company.

    LMT = LMT, Lauer(old), DS Arms, PWA, Eagle, Knights Armament, Barrett, Bushmaster (?)
    CMT = Stag, RRA, High Standard, Noveske, Century (current), Global Tactical, CLE, S&W, MGI, Wilson Tactical, (some?) Colt, Ratworx
    LAR = Grizzly, Bushmaster (L Prefix), Ameetech, (?)DPMS, CMMG, Double Star, Fulton
    JVP = Double Star, LRB
    MMS = Mega, GSE, Dalphon, POF (forged), Alexander Arms,
    Olympic = Olypmic, SGW, Tromix, Palmetto, Dalphon, Frankford, (old) Century
    Sun Devil = Sun Devil forged billet receivers
    Superior = Superior Arms, Lauer (current)
    Grenadier Precision

    Characteristics of the manufacturers (please note, the most typical characteristics are listed, and each manufacturer may have substantial sample variation between lots):

    LMT usually leaves forge flash underneath the trigger well, and roughly cuts them between the receiver extension and pistol grip, while leaving a vertical mold flash line on the front lip of the mag well, as well as having other "fingerprint" marks... no bevel cut for the charging handle on the rear lug for the receiver extension, as well as particular mill marks in between the pivot pin tangs. They also have a 'fingerprint' cut in the receiver on the shelf, and below it where the FCG goes. Notice the diagonal mill mark on one of the pivot pin supports. Also unique is the radius in the grip tang pocket, which is not as smooth a transition as the other manufacturers.


    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    CMT has a rounded bevel on the front of the mag well lip, generally removes the forge flash underneath the trigger well, usually offers a smooth and rounded surface between the receiver extension and pistol grip and has a unique mill mark that would be hidden by the attachment of a pistol grip. There is also a clamp mark of some sort that occurs on the top of the pivot pin lugs that LMT and LAR do not have (see 1st photo at beginning of thread).



    LAR sometimes leaves forge flash underneath the trigger well, and does have a smooth flat milling mark on the round transition on the web between the receiver extension and grip. By the back of the grip tang, there is a milling mark that goes across the width of the receiver. The front of the receiver has a deep cut between the pivot pin retainers, and the front of the mag well is not always flat. The front radius to the mag well bevel is round, but the front edge sometimes shows forge flash.


    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    MMS usually the cleanest cut, with the exception of some CMT receivers. All of the MMS receivers for Mega, POF, Gunsmoke, Dalphon and Stinger I've seen have the typical black teflon coating. Some of the receivers look absolutely perfect, others have mag wells that are cut from both sides and don't quite match up in the center. Some of them also have what look like file marks running in one direction on part of all of the receiver, and can be somewhat subdued or very noticable. I won't describe machining fingerprints, because all Mega manufactured receivers are pretty obviously made by MMS.



    The forgings that CMT and LMT use are also from different manufacturers. The ribbed A2 strength on the reciever extension lug is thinner on the LMT, while the CMT is almost the full width. Mega appears to use the same forgings as LMT. All of the manufacturers seem to have some variation of mag well bevels, and those aren't primarily useful in identification.

    From left to right, Mega, Stag/CMT, LAR, LMT and Barrett,


    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    Other comparisons
    All of the following photos will show from left to right; Mega, Stag, LAR, Barrett and/or LMT:

    Notice the lack of a charging handle bevel on the Barrett/LMT


    Notice the difference between the LMT and the larger mag well bevel of the Barrett (far right):


    Trigger well forge flash clearly visible on the Barrett and LMT:



    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post



    Links to the manufacturers:
    LMT = Lewis Machine and Tool
    www.lewismachine.net

    CMT= Continental Machine and Tool
    www.continentalmachinetool.com
    www.stagarms.com (an individual corporation that was started by CMT)

    LAR = some combination of the original owner's last initials
    www.larmanufacturing.com
    www.largrizzly.com

    MMS=Mega Machine Shop
    www.megamachineshop.com (new)

    JVP=JV Precision
    jvprecision.net

    Superior Arms
    www.superiorarms.com


    Okay, I'm done for now... whew... More info and pics later.

    If there are any corrections, or requests for pics/comparisons of angles I have not yet posted, please PM me.
    http://www.m4carbine.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=20651&dateline=1303766618

  4. #14
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    thanks guys! Great posts.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfelber View Post
    Nice summary. FWIW Aero Precision lowers, those with the AP roll marks, have the keyhole forge marks on them.
    I have an AP lower, serial number 224xx, that has the high shelf and no forge marking.

    I have never seen a lower with a forge marking in that location. I was under the impression that it is generally where the pistol grip boss gets machined down.

    When did AP start getting raw forgings with this new forge marking?
    Does any other manufacturer have this marking?
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Anybody that owns or sells pistol versions of assault rifles is a bottom feeder, irregardless of the ban status of certain ammunition.

    They are illigetimate weapons that have no real purpose other than to attract retards to the gun community.

  6. #16
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    Hmm...interesting. I didn't intend to imply that all of them did, but the ones I saw had the forge marks. Perhaps they utilize forgings from various sources and mill them in-house?



    Here's an example.




    Quote Originally Posted by polymorpheous View Post
    I have an AP lower, serial
    number 224xx, that has the high shelf and no forge marking.

    I have never seen a lower with a forge marking in that location. I was under the impression that it is generally where the pistol grip boss gets machined down.

    When did AP start getting raw forgings with this new forge marking?
    Does any other manufacturer have this marking?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfelber View Post
    Hmm...interesting. I didn't intend to imply that all of them did, but the ones I saw had the forge marks. Perhaps they utilize forgings from various sources and mill them in-house?



    Here's an example.
    Sorry about that.
    Didn't mean to come across in any way but curious.

    There is an article floating around the interwebs about AP.

    Found it:
    http://230grain.com/showthread.php?3...Aero-Precision
    They do machine them in house, and as with mine, they did a good job.
    Last edited by polymorpheous; 07-13-11 at 19:37. Reason: added link
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Anybody that owns or sells pistol versions of assault rifles is a bottom feeder, irregardless of the ban status of certain ammunition.

    They are illigetimate weapons that have no real purpose other than to attract retards to the gun community.

  8. #18
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    Both mine are assembled, but this gent has a few photo's of the Tactical Innovations T-15 here.

    http://www.702shooter.com/precision-...-t15-receiver/

    I'm a fan of the minimization markings my self.

  9. #19
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    Lower comparisons

    Great photos, I have found that one measure of finish quality is how the front of the mag well is finished. My son has a Spikes lower that has a satin finish in that area, no visible forging flash at all. We looked at every available lower at the Orange County gun show at the time and the Spikes had the best overall finish, that may change from time to time, but for overall finish they seem to be the best.
    Some of my own lowers have a ridge in the middle of the mag well front and at the rearof the lower that I take to be a forging flash. It doesnt take that much time and effort to remove the flash. The older lowers seem to have a more prominent flash line thruout the entire lower, it could be the manufacturing process is getting better as more buyers demand a better finish.

  10. #20
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    Tagging this for later. Have some good shots of my AA lower that I can post tonight.

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