Switch Ruger 10/22 for S&W M&P 15-22?

[Jellybean]

I've been mulling over switching out my Ruger 10/22 for a S&W 15-22 practically since I got it, and some recent experiences brought this issue back the the fore and made me start re-thinking it again.
I really want to get a sub-caliber rifle that is more similar to my AR for obvious training purposes.
I got the Ruger because it was cheaper, and at the time I figured I could get by with it, but unfortunately, the more I dig into it the more expensive it's going to get, and I'm starting to feel that I'm going to dump more money into it (especially after looking at the AR-style chassis) than it's worth dumping into a .22 trainer to get it "close" to an AR.
Vs an M&P15, while not perfect, is MUCH closer, and from my price-point of view, a lot cheaper.
However, after doing some basic research (forum is acting wankery again. ), I do have some reservations.
So- on with the questions;

1)How is the reliability of the M&P Vs the Ruger?
This is my biggest concern after ammo.
Has anyone done a serious M4c-style zillion round side by side 'torture' test with these? I've heard a lot of differing things from "every .22 has a mind of it's own" to "the Ruger is better" to "the M&P is better".
I know the M&P had some hiccups when it came out- from what I've read, it seems if I stick with a new manufacture gun and mags, most have been worked out?
But thats still doesn't 100% answer how it stacks up to the 10/22 for reliability.

2) How are the (S&W) mags as far as durability and reliability?
I hear they're proprietary mags?
Are there any other brands that will work?
If I toss one (S&W) on the ground, smack it, step on it, or have some other sort of oft-encountered unfortunate mag-related experience, are they going to hold together, or am I going to be pissing away 17 bucks every time I sneeze to hard at them?
This is one thing I have not seen covered very well in the reviews I've read (reviews, my ass...)
I also hear there is some mythical specific way one has to load the S&W mags, but I have not seen it covered anywhere...

3) Ammo types-
Right now I can run all the bulk Federal, Rem GB, and even some awful Winchester crap through my Ruger, with no performance upgrades with 95% reliability- only hiccups I've gotten is if I wait to long to clean it, or get the usual dud.
It seems the M&P is a little picky with ammo, although it also seems this depends on who you talk to- some people insist you MUST only run high performance ammo for it to function, and at the same time, I've seen quite a few people in the 15-22 picture/general info thread here that I skimmed through say that it runs fine with the bulk Federal you can find in any wallyworld. Even a few folks that got it to work with the "dreaded Golden Bullet" stuff (although I agree it is super dirty).
If I can run it with the Federal bulk, I'll be perfectly happy, but if I have to shoot exclusively higher performance CCI or Fed. Match stuff, I am going to be seriously screwed- there's not much of that around here in my "local" stores and I am NOT paying shipping for .22 ammo online (unless it's practically free).

I've seen the minor issues such as light weight (so I'll just duct tape a brick to it...), lack of sling mounts, or loss of accuracy using a tight sling (I do occasionally shoot with a sling). I'll just have to address those as I come to them, based on how the more important issues listed here pan out.
On the flip side, it seems if I get a good one, I can kill two birds with one stone and run it in either a 'run 'n gun' configuration, or scope it up and get acceptable accuracy.

Which brings us to the meat of the issue;
4) Would you consider it a good idea to switch out (and by that I mean sell- I'm to damn poor to afford both right now) your 10/22 for an M&P?

[ASH556]

As the m4 mantra goes...you have to determine what you want the gun to do for you. Not just "Oh I want a training gun with cheaper .22 ammo." Ok, train what? Reloads? Shooting on the move? Drills? Sight acquisition?

I had a Smith M&P Moe. It was a cool gun, but it didn't help me "train" at all. I just plinked away a bit of ammo and then put it away and eventually sold it. I'd like to have another one, but just because it was fun, not because it was a particularly useful training tool.

Things like mag changes, malfuction clearing, and transitions are trained equally as well (if not better) through dry fire practice with your primary weapon(s).

If it's about sight acquisition and improving marksmanship, add some Tech Sights to your 10/22 and roll on.

That's my input based on experience, anyway.

As far as your mechanical concerns...I had 3 factory 25 rd mags and always ran Federal bulk pack from Walmart. Not a single stoppage.

[devinsdad]

Why not look into a dedicated .22 upper from Tactical Solutions or the like? Saves the cost of another weapon, known good performance, train with your main rifle. Seems the magazine issue is all but fixed as rarely is there threads about mag related problems. For a short term solution, swap out your BCG with a subcaliber unit and plink away.

[Jellybean]

I've seen the BCG conversions, but I don't like them.
And the conversion uppers seem to have even more reliability issues than I'm worried about with the M&P, AND cost more (or same) than an M&P.

[Moltke]

I've been mulling over switching out my Ruger 10/22 for a S&W 15-22 practically since I got it, and some recent experiences brought this issue back the the fore and made me start re-thinking it again.
I really want to get a sub-caliber rifle that is more similar to my AR for obvious training purposes.
I got the Ruger because it was cheaper, and at the time I figured I could get by with it, but unfortunately, the more I dig into it the more expensive it's going to get, and I'm starting to feel that I'm going to dump more money into it (especially after looking at the AR-style chassis) than it's worth dumping into a .22 trainer to get it "close" to an AR.
Vs an M&P15, while not perfect, is MUCH closer, and from my price-point of view, a lot cheaper.
However, after doing some basic research (forum is acting wankery again. ), I do have some reservations.
So- on with the questions;

1)How is the reliability of the M&P Vs the Ruger?
This is my biggest concern after ammo.
Has anyone done a serious M4c-style zillion round side by side 'torture' test with these? I've heard a lot of differing things from "every .22 has a mind of it's own" to "the Ruger is better" to "the M&P is better".
I know the M&P had some hiccups when it came out- from what I've read, it seems if I stick with a new manufacture gun and mags, most have been worked out?
But thats still doesn't 100% answer how it stacks up to the 10/22 for reliability.

2) How are the (S&W) mags as far as durability and reliability?
I hear they're proprietary mags?
Are there any other brands that will work?
If I toss one (S&W) on the ground, smack it, step on it, or have some other sort of oft-encountered unfortunate mag-related experience, are they going to hold together, or am I going to be pissing away 17 bucks every time I sneeze to hard at them?
This is one thing I have not seen covered very well in the reviews I've read (reviews, my ass...)
I also hear there is some mythical specific way one has to load the S&W mags, but I have not seen it covered anywhere...

3) Ammo types-
Right now I can run all the bulk Federal, Rem GB, and even some awful Winchester crap through my Ruger, with no performance upgrades with 95% reliability- only hiccups I've gotten is if I wait to long to clean it, or get the usual dud.
It seems the M&P is a little picky with ammo, although it also seems this depends on who you talk to- some people insist you MUST only run high performance ammo for it to function, and at the same time, I've seen quite a few people in the 15-22 picture/general info thread here that I skimmed through say that it runs fine with the bulk Federal you can find in any wallyworld. Even a few folks that got it to work with the "dreaded Golden Bullet" stuff (although I agree it is super dirty).
If I can run it with the Federal bulk, I'll be perfectly happy, but if I have to shoot exclusively higher performance CCI or Fed. Match stuff, I am going to be seriously screwed- there's not much of that around here in my "local" stores and I am NOT paying shipping for .22 ammo online (unless it's practically free).

I've seen the minor issues such as light weight (so I'll just duct tape a brick to it...), lack of sling mounts, or loss of accuracy using a tight sling (I do occasionally shoot with a sling). I'll just have to address those as I come to them, based on how the more important issues listed here pan out.
On the flip side, it seems if I get a good one, I can kill two birds with one stone and run it in either a 'run 'n gun' configuration, or scope it up and get acceptable accuracy.

Which brings us to the meat of the issue;
4) Would you consider it a good idea to switch out (and by that I mean sell- I'm to damn poor to afford both right now) your 10/22 for an M&P?

I have thought these thoughts.

Eventually, I am going to buy a MP 15-22.

[7.62WildBill]

I was in the same boat as you 5 weeks ago. Since then I have been in the "traded my 10/22 in for and 15-22 MOE FDE and it still has not come in" boat. The wait is killing me.

[zacii]

Keep the 10/22 and get an MP 15-22, too.

Then if you decide that you like one more than the other, you can sell one.

And, you could do the side by side comparisons and tell us all abut it.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

[JHoward]

I'm in to find out more about this. I love my 10/22, but a conversion, or an M&P 15/22 interests me as well.

[Jellybean]

As the m4 mantra goes...you have to determine what you want the gun to do for you. Not just "Oh I want a training gun with cheaper .22 ammo." Ok, train what? Reloads? Shooting on the move? Drills? Sight acquisition?

To keep this nice and vague- all of the above.

I had a Smith M&P Moe. It was a cool gun, but it didn't help me "train" at all. I just plinked away a bit of ammo and then put it away and eventually sold it. I'd like to have another one, but just because it was fun, not because it was a particularly useful training tool.

In all fairness, maybe that was the case for you, but for me it would be a huge help, as I simply can't afford to shoot my fullsize AR more than a few times a year.
I know you can't substitute the real thing perfectly, but a cheap caliber with the same ergos and basic manipulations would be a HUGE help for me- especially as gaining a basic understanding and proficiency in certain areas is going to require the expenditure of a large amount of lead- I'd rather it was a cheap as possible.

Things like mag changes, malfuction clearing, and transitions are trained equally as well (if not better) through dry fire practice with your primary weapon(s).

And I fully intend to continue with this.

If it's about sight acquisition and improving marksmanship, add some Tech Sights to your 10/22 and roll on.

I did this. In my opinion, it's still not cutting it.
I could go on for the majority of a page here explaining why, but for a short version, barring the expenditure of a lot of money or frustration, it's never going to be *quite* there.
That being said, if someone can convince me to the contrary, I'm all ears.

To steal a post from another thread, I thought this summed it up quite nicely;

.........In the last six months I've gotten to the point where I do a lot of pistol shooting then break out the 15-22 and work on handling, barricades etc in combination with the pistol. I'm only doing serious practice with the (fullsize ?)rifle about every other month- distance stuff and a couple of repetitions of close in multi target multi shot drills. Shooting the rifle is a lot more expensive and requires a special range (Not a problem here. Yet.) where I cant do a lot of angles movement etc. I haven't noticed a degradation in my rifle shooting but have noticed better rifle handling due to the time with the 15-22.

FWIW, I don't mean this as a "confirm my choice of gun for me" thread- I'm just trying to throw out my rationale for wanting to switch over for critique/more info here.

[PrevailFI]

OP, If you can keep the Ruger, it would be smart to do so. I've got a couple of M&P 15-22s, but about 6 10/22s. Love 'em!

But, if finances require you to sell the Ruger to do the upgrade, I heartily recommend you do it. Aside from recoil control (negligible but not non-existent) and over-50-yard marksmanship, the M&P is an excellent training tool. Controls are in the right places and are manipulated just like your primary except for the length of throw on the charging handle.

Put an optic, sling and VFG on the M&P 22 as similar to your AR's as possible.The list of skills you can then develop without a home re-fi is very long indeed. For me, the greatest value is shooting on the move / at moving targets and bringing the rifle into play from ready. Also threat-to-threat transitions, and strong side to support side transitions where you actually get to see where your rounds are going - unlike practice in your living room.

Put me down as a very big fan of the M&P 22.