Real world data on the SA80

[armakraut]

Would have been like giving our guys AK-47s after Vietnam.

Probably wouldn't have been a terrible idea to have gone with the Valmet 62 or 76.

Westmoreland tried to get real RPG's back into production too.

[Ed L.]

Indeed. Your second article even had some criticisms of the AR versus the SA80.

The issues with the SA80 are more extensive and many are inherint in the design and not addressable.

Let's look at the M16/M4 issues:

When they first came out they had serious malfunction issues in Vietnam due to use with a different ammo that shot dirtier and increased the cyclic rate beyond the design parameters.

This was addressed by a chroming the chamber and barrel and IIRC using a stiffer action spring that reduced the cyclic rate.

It has been criticized in the 21st century war for reliability issues.

This is successfully addressed by stressing a PM routine that includes heavy lubrication as opposed to trying to run the gun dry.

Also important is throwing out any mags that prove to be problematic and replacing the extractor/extractor spring & extractor spring insert when needed or ideally before it is needed--like every 3-4k rounds. It's a relatively cheap part and if your life is at stake and you are using it in combat conditions preventative maintanance like that can prevent problems.

If the Army was trying to get 200k miles out of tires on the Humvees and they kept blowing out on the road would anyone be surprised?

[Ed L.]

As for length of pull & Bullpups, it is a bit different because the Bullpups that I have used extensively (Steyr AUG & FN FS2000) have their weight further back. It is actually between your hand that runs the gun's controls and your body. Thus it doesn't seem nearly as heavy. I've only briefly handled an SA80 so I don't feel fit to comment on it. Whereas I have used the AUG & FS2000 in about 4 multiday carbine classes.

Below is a picture of my HK416 on a Colt Lower with its stock all the way collapsed next to my Steyr AUG with a 16" barrel.



The AUG is a bit longer than the HK, but it has a 16" barrel. If I were to get the NFA 14" barrel for the AUG it would be about the same length as the 416 with its stock fully collapsed.

The 416 is heavy for an AR and I typically run it with the stock all the way collapsed or out just one position out. Any further and the heavy weight of the gun seems too far out. The standard AR feels about the same.

However, both the AUG and the FS2000 have their weight and center of gravity further back so it is less tiring to carry and use than a 416 or a standard AR. I have found this the case when I used either of the bullpups for classes.

[Heavy Metal]

This was addressed by a chroming the chamber and barrel and IIRC using a stiffer action spring that reduced the cyclic rate.

Heavier buffer with segmented weights.

[Ed L.]

Heavier buffer with segmented weights.

Thanks. Thats what I meant. Could not remember the exact specifics while I was multitasking and doing other things in the background.

[CumbiaDude]

Below is a picture of my HK416 on a Colt Lower with its stock all the way collapsed next to my Steyr AUG with a 16" barrel.

What would you need to do to get the LOP set to be about the same? That's something I hadn't ever thought of with bullpups before I read this thread. Would the stock have to be all the way extended to get that long a LOP? Or even then would the AUG be longer?

[SteyrAUG]

Probably wouldn't have been a terrible idea to have gone with the Valmet 62 or 76.

Westmoreland tried to get real RPG's back into production too.

I don't mean from a "practical weapon" standpoint, I meant from a "somebody is sure to take it the wrong way" standpoint. Kinda the same way I'm sure a LOT of jewish immigrants felt really strange fighting a war to establish a jewish homeland with surplus nazi K-98s.

[armakraut]

I know.

[Miami_JBT]

You're kidding, right?

Did you watch it?

It combined misinformation with an antigun overtone.

Watch the last 15 minutes or so.

Clarkson has stated on numerous occasions that he's pro gun and anti big brother government. For a Brit he's very close to Libertarian. Also understand that the England there is no commercial television as there is here. Everything is approved for government broadcast.... the BBC is the master. TopGear; a show that insults and makes fun of the British government is privately sponsored but still airs on a BBC Channel. The BBC has stepped in numerous times and flat out told the producers that they cannot do what the want to do in the UK or broadcast what they want without BBC Approval.

[Animal_Mother556]

You're kidding, right?

Did you watch it?

It combined misinformation with an antigun overtone.

Watch the last 15 minutes or so.

Skipped ahead to the last 15 minutes on your recommendation. Once I saw Jeremy shooting blanks at a van to try and prove you can't hit anything with an AK on full auto...at that point I had enough.