Range trip report / My thoughts on the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24

[morbidbattlecry]

Its a good review but i have a question about the Vortex retical, how hard is it to see? I've really been looking into this optic but i'm afraid with my bad eyes its going to blur out from being too small.

[pumbaajk]

i also have been considering this optic. a guy at the gun shop was telling me the only complaint was how small the reticle was. currently, the only way i have found to get my hands on one is to order one so i dont want to shuck out the dinero for an optic i am not going to like. i read the instruction manual on vortex's website and for a reticle so small, how the heck do you expect to range with the reticle? Do you think the optic is worthy of a 600 yard .308 gun?

[shootist~]

i also have been considering this optic. a guy at the gun shop was telling me the only complaint was how small the reticle was. currently, the only way i have found to get my hands on one is to order one so i dont want to shuck out the dinero for an optic i am not going to like. i read the instruction manual on vortex's website and for a reticle so small, how the heck do you expect to range with the reticle? Do you think the optic is worthy of a 600 yard .308 gun?

I consider my PST 1-4 a very good CQB to moderate range optic that works for longer ranges in a pinch. It's not what I would consider a "precision" type optic and 600 Yds with smalish targets would be asking a lot for something in this price range, IMO. It works good *for me* on 10" steel plates at 300 meters (330 Yds) if that is any help. (I bang an 18" gong at 500 meters with it as well, but that's a big target.)

The hash marks are too fine for my 62 year old eyes for ranging purposes.

[mattj]

i read the instruction manual on vortex's website and for a reticle so small, how the heck do you expect to range with the reticle?

You understand how reticle ranging actually works, right? 12 mils of reticle (what the mrad version here) is more than enough to range with -- a "bigger" reticle isn't going to help you any. Real things at any significant difference are "small" in the scope -- 30 mils of reticle markings aren't going to help you with ranging (unless you're trying to range entire buildings or stuff at 25 yards).

Now lots of reticle markings can be useful for hold-offs. The mrad version gives you 6 mils of "up" in the reticle, which is good for 700+ yards or so with a 100-yard zeroed .308... that's without dialing.

Now more magnification than 4x may certainly be helpful for precise ranging, etc -- but a mil in the reticle is still a mil in the reticle.

[pumbaajk]

You understand how reticle ranging actually works, right? 12 mils of reticle (what the mrad version here) is more than enough to range with -- a "bigger" reticle isn't going to help you any. Real things at any significant difference are "small" in the scope -- 30 mils of reticle markings aren't going to help you with ranging (unless you're trying to range entire buildings or stuff at 25 yards).

Now lots of reticle markings can be useful for hold-offs. The mrad version gives you 6 mils of "up" in the reticle, which is good for 700+ yards or so with a 100-yard zeroed .308... that's without dialing.

Now more magnification than 4x may certainly be helpful for precise ranging, etc -- but a mil in the reticle is still a mil in the reticle.

I was more worried about the clarity of the reticle with it being so small is what I meant. I am new to long distance shooting so any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Failure2Stop]

I think that Vortex could turn out some really good optics, but the ones I am somewhat interested in all have some critical fault (for my use) that bounces them out of the running.

[ra2bach]

I think that Vortex could turn out some really good optics, but the ones I am somewhat interested in all have some critical fault (for my use) that bounces them out of the running.

care to elaborate where it comes up short?

[ra2bach]

Eurodriver - the reticle you have is the miliradian version. have you seen or compared the MOA version? it appears to me to be larger...

[Failure2Stop]

care to elaborate where it comes up short?

Sorry for the delayed response, I wrote a reply yesterday, only to have my iPhone decide it would be funnier if it refreshed and lost it, so I decided to begin a day of heavy drinking.

Anyway, first off;
My opinion is based off of my application of a low powered variable optic mounted on a long-gun for practical purposes. I consider "practical purposes" to be rapid precision from 3 meters to 600 meters, but primarily only out to 350 or so (unless stepping up in caliber), with the requirement to hit 6-8" targets at high speed out to 200 meters, deliberately out to 300 meters, 3-4" targets out to 100 at high speed, and torso targets quickly out to 300 and deliberately past 300 meters; while wearing gear, being bumped, dumped, dragged, and fragged. So, if your uses don't match mine, don't be suprised if you disagree with me, and even if it does, personal preferences always sway vocalized opinion.

I find small/thin reticles without extremely bright illumination to be easily lost in background and on unconventinally lit/colored targets. A thick crosshair outside the center helps rapidly center the reticle on target.

Uncovered, finger-adjustable turrets are prone to inadvertant zero change. Large turrets are great for target/bullseye/long range use, but a top end of 4x is insufficient for such application. Since speed of engagement is a priority, most elevation and deflection requiremens will be solved by hold-over. For ranges past that which can be effectively held off, rapidly adjustable turrets are good. For adjusting zero and for long-range use, 0.1 mil adjustements offer optimal balance between rapid adjustment and precision when used in conjunction with a mil-based reticle.

The Viper has an attractive price-point, but $500 is outside my impulse buy budget, and other optics give me what I want for a few hundred bucks more. I would like to have an optic at the Viper's price-point and quality with a reticle design conducive to my use and adjustments I prefer.

[mattj]

I was more worried about the clarity of the reticle with it being so small is what I meant. I am new to long distance shooting so any advice is greatly appreciated.

It sounds like the question you need to ask yourself is with a 1-4x is appropriate for the type of shooting you want to do.

Keep in mind that 1 mil on a 1-4x PST will be the same size as 1 mil on any other optic at 4x (assuming it is calibrated to subtend at that power, or is FFP).

If you really plan on doing lots of work at 300-600 yards, something more along the lines of the PST 2.5-10 might be more appropriate -- but that of course means you you're giving up 1x for close-and-fast.

There's a couple 1-8x optics out there that split the difference (S&B Short Dot), but not that I can think of in the PST price range.