BAD Lever Bolt Lock Issues... Cut Spring?

[Dennis]

The exact same set up would not lock back every time with the Tactical Link lever. I haven't thrown them on the scale yet, but by feel the TL seems to weigh a lot more than the BAD.....go figure.

I wonder if since a few grams of weight is the difference between working and not working with a mid and a bolt catch lever extension, it might be prudent not to use one at all... All my "overgassed" carbines run like champs with a BAD and even when one was causing drag with a MUR upper and worse.

I guess I'm talking against my OP now, but maybe some mids just aren't meant to work with a BAD, even if you can get it to work...

Dennis.

[RogerinTPA]

The only issue I've had with the bad lever not holding the bolt back was on well worn Pmags. The bolt didn't lock back on those mags even when the BAD lever was removed. On further inspection, the tang/lever on the bolt catch, which is lifted by the follower, was sliding off the back of it and down, causing the malfunction. A friend had bolt lock issues with his lower when using the BAD lever. We just bent it almost straight, and the problem was resolved.

[01tundra]

I wonder if since a few grams of weight is the difference between working and not working with a mid and a bolt catch lever extension, it might be prudent not to use one at all... All my "overgassed" carbines run like champs with a BAD and even when one was causing drag with a MUR upper and worse.

I guess I'm talking against my OP now, but maybe some mids just aren't meant to work with a BAD, even if you can get it to work...

Dennis.

I'm going to try the BAD on my DD as soon as it gets finished up. They either both need to function 100% with it, or the BAD will be retired and life will go on. What I don't want to do is run a BAD on one and not the other, I think for me that would prove to be counter productive.

[amac]

I wonder if since a few grams of weight is the difference between working and not working with a mid and a bolt catch lever extension, it might be prudent not to use one at all... All my "overgassed" carbines run like champs with a BAD and even when one was causing drag with a MUR upper and worse.

I guess I'm talking against my OP now, but maybe some mids just aren't meant to work with a BAD, even if you can get it to work...

Dennis.

Come to think of it, my M&P carbine functioned fine with a BAD, but my middy doesn't. What's the connection? You may be on to something here inspector.

Question... For those having failure to lock after emptying a mag, will your bolt lock back if you insert an empty mag, with bolt down, and then rack the CH?

[SA80Dan]

Come to think of it, my M&P carbine functioned fine with a BAD, but my middy doesn't. What's the connection? You may be on to something here inspector.

Question... For those having failure to lock after emptying a mag, will your bolt lock back if you insert an empty mag, with bolt down, and then rack the CH?

Just to throw a wrench in that theory, my M&P carbine hated the BAD, and didn't lock back about 40% of the time. At the weekend, I tried it on my Middy....and it seems to be OK! But - it was just out of curiosity; it is going on ebay this week, I just don't trust them now.

Re your question there - doing a dry drill as you describe, the bolt would always lock back.

I've been following this thread for a while now, and I think my own conclusion is unchanged - the BADs work on some rifles, and on some they don't....and we still don't know why!

Out of spec this, that and the other has been talked about; but at the end of the day, on otherwise perfectly functioning rifles, the only thing that is truly out of spec are the BAD levers themselves - a 3-4inch piece of metal hanging off a very small bolt release paddle which was not designed for that.

[Evil Bert]

It appears as though when the OP switches out uppers it works just fine. If a different BCG is in the upper that works fine with the BAD, then I would be inclined to say it is the bolt. Since the bolt is what engages the bolt catch, it would appear as though the bolt is not moving far enough back by possibly millimeters, when the BAD is on the release. I would try swapping out complete BCG's between the uppers and testing it. Then swap only the bolts (each upper has the orig carrier) and see what happens.

What I think the OP needs to do ultimately is put the upper that works 100% with the BAD on, and start introducing components from the failing upper until he is able to reproduce the problem. If unable to reproduce the problem, then the issue is the gas port in my mind. As that failing upper is not getting quite enough gas to push the BCG that fraction of a millimeter back when the BAD is in place.

[Evil Bert]

Come to think of it, my M&P carbine functioned fine with a BAD, but my middy doesn't. What's the connection? You may be on to something here inspector.

The carbine is over gassed because it is a carbine. Carbines by their nature have greater recoil. The bolt is traveling far enough back with the carbine to get engaged by the catch with the BAD hanging on it.

The middy on the other hand should have a softer recoil, meaning the bolt may not travel far enough back to engage the catch when the the BAD is hanging on it because the BAD may have shifted it ever so slightly.

The difference between a middy and a carbine is a middy gets less gas. Less gas means a softer recoiling rifle. Softer recoil means BCG not traveling as far back. Not traveling as far back means BAD may cause BHO not to be engaged.

Question... For those having failure to lock after emptying a mag, will your bolt lock back if you insert an empty mag, with bolt down, and then rack the CH?[/QUOTE]

Almost every time, when an empty mag is in and you manually rack the CH, the BHo will engage. Why? Because you will almost always pull the CH far enough back to more than clear the BHO and the bolt will engage.

[01tundra]

Come to think of it, my M&P carbine functioned fine with a BAD, but my middy doesn't. What's the connection? You may be on to something here inspector.

Question... For those having failure to lock after emptying a mag, will your bolt lock back if you insert an empty mag, with bolt down, and then rack the CH?

Yes mine will lock back every time when cycling the bolt manually. Also, all my Pmags are basically still new in the grand scheme of things.

My BCM 16" middy has about 1,000 rnd thru it. With the BAD installed there's very little slop in it, so I'd say that the bolt release is fairly tight since it's all practically new.

Here's what I've got so far (this is with lower pressure .223 brass ammo):

1. With the carbine buffer, blue Springco spring, and BAD it would lock back 100% of the time.

2. With the H buffer, blue Springco spring, and BAD it would lock back about 75% of the time. (with 5.56 ammo 100%)

3. With the H buffer, blue Springco spring, and heavier TL lever it would lock back about 50% of the time.

4. With the H buffer, white Springco spring, and TL lever it would lock back about 50% of the time.

5. With the H buffer, BCM carbine spring, and TL lever it would lock back about 75% of the time.

6. With the H buffer, BCM carbine spring, and BAD lever it has locked back 100% of the time so far (but I'm going to test with Wolf ammo tomorrow).

If I have to choose, I'll keep the H buffer over the BAD. I plan to do some additional testing once I get the DD middy built.

[OMD]

Maybe timing is the issue. Maybe it is that last few mm of bolt travel slowing down on the middy, combined with a slightly slower engagement speed of the catch (because of the bad lever's added inertia for the spring to overcome) that is causing the malfunction. This is hurting my brain too much! I think I'd move on from the bad if it was giving me this much trouble, too. Glad it is getting better. Should be interesting to see more of your tests with the DD middy.

[alpha.kilo]

In November and December of last year, I ordered a red and a blue Sprinco spring along with a selection of buffers and played around with a couple of my carbines. One was a middy Noveske and the other three were all Colts. All were 16 inch barrels of various round counts between 2K and 15K. Also, all four carbines had BAD levers installed.

The purpose was to see what would run in MY guns reference springs and buffers. Having the BAD levers in place never crossed my mind as being an issue. They remained on my guns throughout my little experiment.

I don't want to bore everybody with all of the data I collected. But what I do believe is relevant to this thread is that all of the carbines, including the Noveske middy, ran fine with a Blue spring and an H buffer. 100%. I had no failure to lock back on any magazine with that combination. In no way did I have any malfunction related to a BAD lever.

Mags used were my well worn Pmag training mags. Ammo varied from PMC .223 55 grain to 5.56 nato in 55 and 62 grains. None of the guns were cleaned for two months; but they were lubed before each shoot. Shooting was done in standing position with carbine held loosely at the hip.

Pretty crazy how some guns won't run with the smallest of add-ons, while others run like a Formula 1 racing engine. The adage of thoroughly testing every bit of kit you wish to add to your weapon system seems to be born out by the experiences in this thread.

AK