bolt carrier staking (comparison)

[Shihan]

Not wanting to suggest that such a feature is completely useless I can only think of one instance of a gas leak I personally encountered casued by a loose gas key. Someone came to me after he removed the allen screws B/C he thought that was the way you remove the cam pin!

Staking is not a feature thats useless but one that is mandatory to insure that the weapon continues to function. Its like insurance. You stated you only can think of one instance ......... Well how many AR type weapons have you seen in hard use that were not staked?

[Robb Jensen]

Damn I posted the pics of staking on another forum (bad mistake) a few people over there got all butt hurt. And then attacked the messenger.


I staked a customers bolt carrier yesterday it was a DPMS BCG from a Blackthorne kit. It wasn't staked at all and the screws weren't even to proper torque, they were on at about 15in lbs. I imagine something like this would shoot loose within a few magazines.

So I removed the key, lapped the bottom of if, torqued to 55in lbs and staked the sides with the MOACKS and top counterstakes with the P-MOACKS.

[signal4l]

The Armalite and DPMS photos are unbelievable. Armalite charges a pretty penny for their weapons. Both of those brands are very popular with state, local PD's here in Illinois. I hope they have a Moacks

[ST911]

Damn I posted the pics of staking on another forum (bad mistake) a few people over there got all butt hurt. And then attacked the messenger.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

[FALSNARS]

Sorry, post inadvertently submitted. Did I miss something here or can you not delete your very own post without having a reason?

Who gets to decide if the mistake is bad enough to rate deletion? How do you deal with the stress?

[Robb Jensen]

I think what you're seeing is counter-staking. IMHO the best stake job has both side staking and top counter-staking. This is my 3gun carrier. It's a Colt with factory side staking and P-MOACKS top counter-stakes (that I put there).

Someone on another website said it was excessive as if staking can be too good and make your rifle too reliable or something!

[FALSNARS]

Shihan;Staking is not a feature thats useless but one that is mandatory to insure that the weapon continues to function. Its like insurance. You stated you only can think of one instance ......... Well how many AR type weapons have you seen in hard use that were not staked?[/QUOTE]

Shihan- I thought I was pretty clear in saying it was not useless. had i wanted to say that I would've said something like "I think staking the gas key is useless." I made such a point B/C of the naure of the failure I described; Staking had the same effect on preventing the failure as spitting on it would've. You may want to re-read that portion of the post, it is pretty funny.
Having thought about it later I did see (indirectly) see a gas leak @ the key - carrier mating in a S/Fire B/M.

Here's the whole point I was hoping to make;
In terms of "non-staked" AR's in "hard use" the high degree of variation in manufacturer staking within any given maker, much less across the spectrum of gun makers, is something I'd argue amounts to pretty much the same equation. All you have to do is look @ the pix posted in this thread. All the brands display differing depth and breadths of toolmarks. With this miinscule representation of the larger AR15 population would it not be safe and fair to say much of these "stakings" are little more than cosmetic?
Speaking to the variations within the same manufacturer I have to point out the photo of the Armalite and DPMS carriers with the question posed regarding the high "expense" of such brands. While I can't post pix of my rifle presently it's one of those overpriced Armalites. It cost me (gasp) $760.00 w/ front and rear sights included NIB in 2002. The gas key is comparable to the bottom of two carriers in a photo posted by Sidewinder in this thread with the exception mine also has what has been referred to as "counter staking."
With all of that said I can't help but observe that for the money paid by ppl for these rifles no one should have to "fix" anything on the things to make them reliable.

[Shihan]

Not wanting to suggest that such a feature is completely useless I can only think of one instance of a gas leak I personally encountered casued by a loose gas key. Someone came to me after he removed the allen screws B/C he thought that was the way you remove the cam pin!

FALSNARS I read your statement as saying that you are implying its partially useless.

I also asked-how many AR type weapons have you seen in hard use that were not staked? In response to your above statement.

[aloharover]

Lets not forget the ubber rare F staked keys

[Ned Christiansen]

Holy smokes, you have an "F" staked carrier? I'll give you $500 for it right here right now, I'm not kidding.

OK, I'm kidding.

I do like that straight-across staking method. Looks like if it's done right/enough, it ought to be pretty much self locking, the screw and carrier both having been co-mashed at the same point.