The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

[500grains]

2. If you think that holding to the TDP ... isn't important explain to us why.

Responding to just this point just with respect to the lower receiver:

My understanding is that the lower receiver is a low stress part, so a billet lower will work just fine, as long as the dimensions are correct (pins fit, mag drops free, fits with milspec upper, etc.).

What I like about a billet lower is the larger diameter finger hole that is integral to the receiver rather than a separate part pinned in place. That is just a personal preference based on aesthetics, not function. Also, I do like the look of some billet lowers.

If I have misunderstood and there are times when the greater strength of a forging rather than billet are necessary, please tell me. Or if there is some other point that I overlooked, please set me straight. Thanks.

I will repeat here what I have posted several times in other threads. Over about 10 years I have gone through lots of ARs, many of them custom builds. Some were just good deals. Some were guns that I thought would be fun, etc. Brands included Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, Rock River, CMMG, etc. (I know I am missing a couple but I am drawing a blank at the moment). They were shitty guns. I thought they were average guns when I bought them, but I learned. In other words, I am not as stupid now as I was then.

I have gotten rid of most of those shitty AR-15s (still trying to sell some - send a PM if interested ) in lieu of the half dozen that are at or very, very close to the TDP. In some cases I had to sell 2 shitty AR-15s to generate the money to pay for one good AR-15. In other cases I only had to add $200 to the selling price of a shitty AR-15 to get a good one. So it was not painful at all. Now I have to get rid of my shitty M1As from SA and get one good one from Fulton Armory.

About 15 years ago I went the same route on optics. I was absolutely DONE with Bushnell, Bausch & Lomb, Redfield, Weaver, Tasco, etc. So I threw some of those crap optics in the trash and sold others, and implemented a policy that nothing crappier than a Leupold could go in the safe. And I live by that policy. I have not purchased a Leupold in 10 years, sticking to better quality options.

[Iraqgunz]

I guess I should clarify the whole TDP thing. I am talking about important stuff like proper grades of steel for the bolt, small parts, barrel, etc...

I used a Mega Machine billet lower to build my wifes carbine. Everything fit 100% and I had no issues with it at all.

I would even use BM lowers to build a rifle/carbine if I had to. I agree that it is more or less a "low stress" part. I know that there have been pics posted of some lowers that have cracked or broken at the rear where the lower receiver extension meets up. How and why is unknown.

Responding to just this point just with respect to the lower receiver:

My understanding is that the lower receiver is a low stress part, so a billet lower will work just fine, as long as the dimensions are correct (pins fit, mag drops free, fits with milspec upper, etc.).

What I like about a billet lower is the larger diameter finger hole that is integral to the receiver rather than a separate part pinned in place. That is just a personal preference based on aesthetics, not function. Also, I do like the look of some billet lowers.

If I have misunderstood and there are times when the greater strength of a forging rather than billet are necessary, please tell me. Or if there is some other point that I overlooked, please set me straight. Thanks.

I will repeat here what I have posted several times in other threads. Over about 10 years I have gone through lots of ARs, many of them custom builds. Some were just good deals. Some were guns that I thought would be fun, etc. Brands included Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, Rock River, CMMG, etc. (I know I am missing a couple but I am drawing a blank at the moment). They were shitty guns. I thought they were average guns when I bought them, but I learned. In other words, I am not as stupid now as I was then.

I have gotten rid of most of those shitty AR-15s (still trying to sell some - send a PM if interested ) in lieu of the half dozen that are at or very, very close to the TDP. In some cases I had to sell 2 shitty AR-15s to generate the money to pay for one good AR-15. In other cases I only had to add $200 to the selling price of a shitty AR-15 to get a good one. So it was not painful at all. Now I have to get rid of my shitty M1As from SA and get one good one from Fulton Armory.

About 15 years ago I went the same route on optics. I was absolutely DONE with Bushnell, Bausch & Lomb, Redfield, Weaver, Tasco, etc. So I threw some of those crap optics in the trash and sold others, and implemented a policy that nothing crappier than a Leupold could go in the safe. And I live by that policy. I have not purchased a Leupold in 10 years, sticking to better quality options.

[stifled]

Good idea for a thread, given the recent preponderance of posters espousing the superiority of their poor to mediocre guns.

Since it's the purpose of this thread, I'll share the experience I have had with my first AR, a Stag Arms A3. I still own it, but keep it mostly as a range toy now that I don't feel quite comfortable trusting my life to it.

Background: I'm a citizen with a strong belief in personal responsibility which extends to self defense and am fascinated with mechanical things, so guns are a natural fit for me. I enjoy running drills to make myself better, and see myself as proficient especially with some automatic pistols and I'm getting there with ARs.


On to my Stag...
I bought my Stag merely 18 months ago. Since then I have put around 2500 rounds through it, mostly doing drills. I've had exactly one stoppage from this gun, a double feed, about a month after I bought it. Other than that the only issue I've had with it is a cracked buffer retaining pin. I noticed it cracked during an inspection after a range trip. I am not sure what caused it--I'm thinking maybe just that it has a carbine length gas system while having a carbine buffer in it from the factory before I knew better.

That said, the barrel didn't go through MPI or a HPT. Neither did the bolt, nor was it shot peened. It's also not made of the correct steel. The bolt carrier isn't chrome lined. It doesn't have M4 feed ramps... I think I've listed enough.

So while it has been a good gun that has treated me right, I now know that not all AR-15s are created equal and buy accordingly.

[dieselgeek]

This thread has been great so far. Almost everyone is defensive and attacks if anyone slightly disagrees with them. That just makes them "chart haters" now. I think the gun lube needs to go around a few necks. Might help the head pop out of a certain place. Rob great chart and great follow up post on how to improve your Rifle. I think people on both sides of the chart need to take off the blinders.


iPhone post excuse the sloppiness of it.

[dieselgeek]

Actually, all it proves is that you suck at reading.

This forum clearly does not condemn people for buying sub-par carbines, and in fact, most of the high post count membership advocates fixing the gun you have versus selling and buying new, in most cases.

Your straw man, ad hominem attacks are what are out of line. You and seacoastnh obviously have not done a good job of reading the forum prior to attacking "the chart". Heck, you haven't even read and understood the posts a few before yours that broke down that "the chart" is not the end-all, be-all.

What this thread is about is the periodic waves of mouth-breathers who are obviously lack the ability to read, understand and apply the knowledge that some pretty talented folks offer for free on this web-site.

Is there a tendency for some of the newly converted and less erudite to just respond with "BCM good, Bushmaster bad!"? Yes, there is. However, I would guess that even those who realize their BM is a piece of shit and "make it work" have much, much more into their still marginal carbine then they would have if they bought the best carbine available.

My oh my you stamp a seal on my point every time you post. We're going to be great friends.

[STAFF]

My oh my you stamp a seal on my point every time you post. We're going to be great friends.

The majority of all your posts lack any technical value. You are in a technical forum so please discuss the facts.

If you do not know any facts in regards to this subject, keep your fingers away from the keyboard.

[dieselgeek]

I see that the "chart haters" have low post counts. This shows me that they need to research this forum quite a bit more and they will quickly see that this forum does NOT beat up on the "non chart" manufacturer's, they simply show proof as to why they would not defend their lives or the lives of others with that specific "non chart" rifle. Ignorance is not an excuse or proof that ........... Well, see the thread title.

I think depending your life on what a manufacture says they do to a Rifle is pretty bold.

[jklaughrey]

double post

[jklaughrey]

No need to troll and attempt to stir that pot.

[mrbilltoo]

All I can say is I am a Vietnam era vet. Did I serve in Vietnam...no. I was just post Vietnam. I trained with the old M16 that probably had seen wartime service. I qualified Expert. Our biggest concern was crappy ammo. Cases and cases of ammo some with the bullet dislodged. Some with the bullet seated in too far. The M16 I fired was capable of making pop-up silhouette target hits at 300 meters with iron sights. If I did my part, the weapon did it's part. There was no burst switch. It was either selective fire or full auto.
When it was clear that Obama was going to become president, I contacted my best friends dad(ret. Army Col. FFL) to obtain an M4 style rifle for me. I asked for a different brand and after waiting about 6 months in the week I moved from Alabama back home to Arizona, he had obtained a Del-Ton. I didn't know anything about this site at that time.
After starting to follow this site, I started finding out about staking, HPT, alloys,... and the like.
Ultimately, all my weapons are SHTF weapons. I don't have wads of cash to spend. For the weapons I own I want to be able to carry most of the spare parts I need in case I need to bug-out at some point. And I want extreme reliability. I have settled on a good 870 shotgun, a good AR variant, and a Glock. I also have a Wilson Combat KZ. I have moved away from .45 to .9mm due to the ability to carry more ammo.
For this site, I have nothing but kudos. It has been truly eye opening.
At some point, I would like a middy BCM and put the Del-Ton upper out to pasture. With age comes clarity and wisdom.