Questions/Discussion on cryogenic barrel treatment.

[Straight Shooter]

A search, using "my friend, the orange search button in the upper right hand corner" did not show much info, nor anything current on this subject.
Id like to hear the latest word/opinion on cryogenically treating AR barrels. Particularly interested in those here who are high volume shooters. Anyone ever had a barrel that was good/bad/so-so, then cryo'ed it and got different results, good or bad?
If you like or dislike it, please tell why.
Also- do different steels, like 8620,9130, Carpenter 158, ect.,react better or worse to cryo? Are there barrel steels that you would NOT want to cryo?
Are there visible ways to tel if a barrel has been cryo'ed? Are there markings for such?
Besides LMT...who else cryo's their barrels?
Would it be beneficial to cryo bolts,hammers, or other parts?
Finally...what, if any, are the DETRIMENTS to cryo'ing a barrel?
Looking forward to any responses and info yall may have.

[brasse]

Also what company would be recommended?

I was looking at 300below.com. No liquid nitrogen ever touches the barrels, and they use computer control to one degree F to go first to 300 below and then bring it up to plus 300 degrees mutiple times. So two stress relief programs.

They have a US Patent from 1999 on this process.

Not only do they claim greater accuracy both with cold bose shots but under hot barrels, they also claim another 50-60 FPS bullet speed.

I notice they also sell the machines used for this process, 300 Below's Model 921 Cryogenic Processor. Looks like they can hold about 1000 two pound barrels.

So other companies could also be using this same machine and process, although someone could cheat and not do all the additional plus 300 degree heat soaks.

[fixit69]

I can say that cryo is not 100 percent(as is anything else, I know).

It can lead to metal stress and fatigue if done improperly, and sometimes properly done it can do the same.

I have never heard anyone say this was a must have or need to. Take what you want from this, I'm just parroting. I wouldn't go that route.

[Straight Shooter]

I have NEVER read that cryo-ing can "lead to metal stress and fatigue" even sometimes when properly done.
Not arguing, but can you point to a credible source for this info? Id like to read the latest info on this, as this is part of what I was asking.
I too, have never heard anyone say it was a "must have or need to".
It must have SOME credible benfits, many industries outside of, and inside of, the gun industry use this process for a miriad of things.
Im especially interested in the use of it in firearms.

[fixit69]

I have NEVER read that cryo-ing can "lead to metal stress and fatigue" even sometimes when properly done.
Not arguing, but can you point to a credible source for this info? Id like to read the latest info on this, as this is part of what I was asking.
I too, have never heard anyone say it was a "must have or need to".
It must have SOME credible benfits, many industries outside of, and inside of, the gun industry use this process for a miriad of things.
Im especially interested in the use of it in firearms.

These are things I've heard, that's why I said "parroting". I have no source to point to but people that are more knowledgeable in metallurgy.

I DO know that in my limited experience with cryo anything, I have never had the favorable results that others have had. I am refering to guitar strings, roll and taper pins I use in machinery and gears used in the same. What I said, happened.

And I'm not arguing either. My limited experience has soured me to the process, but as I said, limited.

[Eric D.]

There are great benefits to cryo treatment in certain applications. I believe Springco extractor springs are cryogenically treated. I have heard of musicians having their trumpets and other brass instruments treated, resulting in different sound. Disposable razors that are cryo treated can hold an edge for dozens of shaves.

Without direct experience in the process, its hard to speculate how it would affect AR parts. When it comes to metal treatment, I get the feeling that are a lot of industry secrets, so to speak. The theory is fairly straight forward but producing a specific, consistent result requires tweaking and experimenting with the process. Someone would really have to do a lot of testing to see if cryo would be beneficial or not.

[brasse]

I know race cars use cyro treating on numerous parts. Looks like the bench rest guys use it in their barrels. They are not like us, we are happy with one MOA and jumping with joy with a 0.5 inch group at 100 yards. That would be terrible for those guys.

Now my worry is if I get a melonite treated barrel, does the cryo treating affect the melonite.

Some of the industry secrets might be in the order of treatment. 300Below implies that barrels polish up better after treatment.

LMT states:cryogenically treated barrel for greater accuracy and life

Just look at the duek web page: http://www.dueckdefense.com/tactical-rifles.asp


I guess it will come down to cost, if cyro is under $100 it might be worth it, if over the money could be spent on getting the barrel internals polished and lapped.

[Suwannee Tim]

.....It can lead to metal stress and fatigue if done improperly......

Fatigue? Fatigue is the result of many load / unload cycles. Cryo treatment involves one load / unload of thermal stresses and cannot possibly cause fatigue. This is very basic mechanical engineering stuff and in a Wikipedia era there is really no excuse for not knowing the meaning of a term before you start throwing the term around.

[wild_wild_wes]

Any other input on this?

[Badger89]

I know race cars use cyro treating on numerous parts. Looks like the bench rest guys use it in their barrels. They are not like us, we are happy with one MOA and jumping with joy with a 0.5 inch group at 100 yards. That would be terrible for those guys.

Since this thread has been resurrected, I'll give my 2 cents if anyone is interested. DISCLAIMER: I have absolutely no personal experience with cryo-treatment. None. Zip, zilch, zero.

It's rather common to have transmission gears cryo treated in the racing world (both the sanctioned organizations and the not-so-legal 0'dark30 crowd). I used to be into dodge neons pretty heavy and a few guys running over 300/300 whp/wtq would have just about everything in the transaxle cryo treated... shafts, gears, differential, the whole 9 yards. Others would just replace the trans when they blew it up, but that can get costly if you're doing any sort of upgrades to it first since it usually destroyed those as well, and most running that much power would opt to drop in a limited slip diff at around $1k a pop. That said, some guys that had the cryo treatment done still broke stuff, and some guys who didn't have it done ran outrageous amounts of power through the transmission for quite a while before it turned into a grenade. One guy was putting out around 480 ft/lbs at the wheels IIRC and ran a stock trans for quite a while until he sheared the teeth off of 3rd gear racing a Ferrari 360 - although that was partly his own fault. He never lifted off the throttle on the upshift, so the turbo didnt bleed off and 3rd was hit with the full 480+ ft/lbs right away. Prior to that night the transmission had held up fine untreated.

Short version of the story: what that tells me is that cryo treatement may offer a moderate improvement in the strength of the steel treated, it doesn't affect how YOU treat it... and that is probably the more important factor. I also can't see it having much of an affect on accuracy, as it does not change the barrel or the rifling, it just makes the steel a little stronger, in theory. Cryo treating a crappy barrel just gives you a more expensive crappy barrel. I terms of durability and wear resistance, I would estimate that melonite/nitride treatment would offer better results than cryo treatment. YMMV