M14 and all of the variants/teach this guy about the M14 in general.

[Safetyhit]

Just found a nice forged receiver for a mere $600.


Can see this will be an expensive venture.

[Thomas M-4]

Just found a nice forged receiver for a mere $600.


Can see this will be an expensive venture.

Is it the smith enterprise receiver??
I have been wondering what they would go for.

[Safetyhit]

Is it the smith enterprise receiver??
I have been wondering what they would go for.

Fulton Armory website. And that is their cheap one, the other is $700. Maybe gunbroker has better deals.

[Thomas M-4]

Fulton Armory website. And that is their cheap one, the other is $700. Maybe gunbroker has better deals.

Roger that for some reason I always forget to check out Fulton armory.
SEI is supposed to release a receiver cut out of bar stock that I have been trying to keep tabs on.

[Cobra66]

One thing I know at this point is that there seems to be too much fundamental work that needs to be done for the friggin money spent. Why has this weapon apparently been allowed to regress to this extent?

Sure, I know civilian M4 variants have differences from military grade weapons. But it seems as though the civi SA M-14 version itself has regressed. Why?

Guess someone is looking at 2 G's minimum, likely more to get the thing up to par. Not ideal but I still may do it. Something about an AR-10 that just doesn't spark me like the M1A.

My guess (and they are only guesses):

1) The fact that mil-spec parts are becoming scarcer and scarcer coupled with the vastly increased demand for them to support the global war on terror has resulted in SAI having to rely more and more on commercial parts. My NM gun was purchased back in 1994 and the only commercial parts that were on it was the receiver (in fact it was all Winchester). It has since had a commercial stock and barrel put on it. My Socom purchased in 2005 came with a mixture of GI parts and commercial parts (commercial bolt, GI trigger group and oprod). From what I'm hearing, most of the newer guns are mostly commercial.

2) The increased demand for any and all rifles of this type following November 2008 has caused SAI to crank these rifles (and parts) out faster than they can and maintain good QC.

3) The increased interest in this rifle as something more than a "collector piece" or match gun has been putting strains on components and exposing fatal flaws in the commercial parts.

Check out the m14 forums and you will see that the majority of new SAI rifles are doing the job as advertised. Odds are that if you buy a new SAI rifle, you will have no real issues. The M14 platform is an expensive platform to get into as a nature of the beast, but I have found it to be a very satisfying platform to own.

[TOrrock]

Cobra has hit a lot of good points.

The "instant" upgrade I'd do on a SAI M1A would be a GI bolt and extractor....at the very least a GI extractor. Springfield Armory went through a period where their commercial cast extractors were failing with alarming regularity when used for more than casual plinking....

A GI oprod would be nice, but a commercial one will do the job if it's in spec.


Now then.....I'd like to relate some personal history with the M1A/M14 and why I have the views that I have....

I've owned several early Springfield Armory Inc. M1A's that were all GI parts with the exception of the receiver, and they were damn good rifles that never gave me any issues.

I've owned a Smith Enterprise M14 that was a transferable machinegun and it was a lot of fun, but had some issues with bolt over round in mag issues occasionally.

So, about 8 years ago, I bought my father a Springfield Armory M1A through an employee purchase program. The M14 was the last rifle that was issued to him before he left the Army in 1963. This particular rifle had a commercial barrel but a GI oprod (H&R).

We were out at the range one day and he was benching it. I was shooting off hand next to him to his right. I noticed that he was having to push the oprod closed to get the bolt to lock in, he'd done this for two shots before I noticed it and called cease fire.

I inspected the rifle, then stripped it. While I was holding the receiver in my right hand and the barrel in my left, I noticed something didn't feel "right". I twisted my hands in opposite directions and lo-and-behold, the barrel started unscrewing from the receiver.......

I was shocked, appalled, and pissed.

If the rifle had fired out of battery, my father could have been seriously injured or killed. We're not talking about a 9mm blowback carbine, we're talking about a 7.62 NATO battle rifle.......

The head of Springfield's customer service got a call first thing the next morning....they paid shipping for me to get it back to them for inspection. They determined that the rifle was indeed FUBAR'd from the factory. I made sure, politely, that they understood how upset I was and what might have happened if I hadn't called a ceasefire.

To Springfield's credit, their CS is some of the best in the business. They asked me what I wanted. I got the feeling that if I had asked for a Super Match they would have given it to me.

I told them that I wanted a rifle sent back to me with a GI barrel, new, a GI bolt and oprod, new, GI trigger group, new, and a new GI walnut stock purty enough to make Senior Drill Instructor Hartman weep for joy at the sight of such a fine weapon of wood and steel......

I could hear an exhalation of breath on the other end of the phone and a sigh of relief. "Is that all? You just want a standard grade gun?" "Yes, I want a GI chrome lined barrel, all GI parts with the exception of your receiver."

"OK, we can do that."

And that's what we got back, and it's been a hell of performer since.



There are a couple reasons M14's/M1A's are so expensive to do correctly.

There haven't been any new GI parts made for them since about 1968. The receiver itself is a pain in the ass to forge and machine, which is why Fulton and Springfield cast them. There's still a lot of awkward machine work to do on them. Each bolt and oprod needs to be fitted to the receiver, it's a very labor intensive rifle to build.

New chrome lined barrels are available from Krieger through their Criterion line. They're good barrels, probably better than the GI barrels from the 50's and '60's.

The population of good smiths who know what their doing around these things is shrinking.

After 9/11 and our invasion of Afghanistan, a large number of M14's were pulled out of mothballs and shipped out. The .gov even started buying back parts that they had once surplussed.

Parts just dried up. There weren't all that many M14's made in the grand scheme of things to start with. Many, many were destroyed, and a lot went overseas as military aid over the decades.



If I were building one up now......I'd get a good quality receiver, a Criterion 18" chrome lined barrel, Smith Vortex flash suppressor, Smith bolt release, GI oprod, bolt, and trigger group, and a GI synthetic stock with the selector switch cut out filled in.

You're going to spend about $2K to do it decently.

And as has been mentioned, the safety is in a gawd awful place. You're making the same motion that normally puts a bullet down range to engage the safety, only an inch in front of the trigger.

I was at a Vickers Tactical Main Battle Rifle class a couple years ago where there was a ND that was caused in part by the safety set up. The guy was pretty switched on too, but shit does tend to happen when you're under stress. No one was hurt and there wasn't any damage, the muzzle was pointed where it should have been, but it was indeed a wake up call.



..........my father with his hand built Springfield M1A at the same Vickers class I just referenced....






And my Smith Enterprises transferable full boogie M14 that I used to have....

[DocGKR]

For not much more money, one can get a state of the art, dramatically more accurate, ergonomic, and modular rifle than an M14/M1A: http://larueosr.com/laruetacticalste...e762rifle.aspx. The only reason for getting an M1A is nostalgia or if asinine, illogical laws prevent the purchase of a superior rifle system...

[Safetyhit]

For not much more money, one can get a state of the art, dramatically more accurate, ergonomic, and modular rifle than an M14/M1A: http://larueosr.com/laruetacticalste...e762rifle.aspx. The only reason for getting an M1A is nostalgia or if asinine, illogical laws prevent the purchase of a superior rifle system...

The stock Scout I am looking at is a steep $1,600 (on a good deal). This gun, while beautiful, is twice that. Seems like the .308 has gone ballistic to me, but looking at some of the images in the other M-14 thread maybe I am simply out of touch and just ignorant to this platform overall.

[Spooky130]

My M1A I got in the early 90s is mostly USGI parts - it is a great gun. I can shoot it better at 100 yards with open sights than any other gun I own. I can put 20 rounds in relatively rapid succession into about a 3" group. I can hardly do that at 50 yards with an RDS equipped AR. I think it is just the interface between me, the gun and the sights.

That being said, it is not the most modern gun out there and there are better alternatives now for .308 battle rifles. I hope to soon have my hands on an LMT in .308 soon to compare. For $2500 it really could bite into some of SAI's sales. To get an M1A to a comparable level takes lots of time and money. Sometimes though, that is part of the fun as well.

Spooky

[Safetyhit]

If I were building one up now......I'd get a good quality receiver, a Criterion 18" chrome lined barrel, Smith Vortex flash suppressor, Smith bolt release, GI oprod, bolt, and trigger group, and a GI synthetic stock with the selector switch cut out filled in.

You're going to spend about $2K to do it decently.

Thomas M-4's suggestion seems like a good place to go for this.