M14 and all of the variants/teach this guy about the M14 in general.

[TOrrock]

Alright, first off, Investment castign is NOT the same as just mold casting where the metal is basically tin and lead like "Hot wheels" car.

People blow the whole Investment cast Vs. Forged thing way out of proportion. A springfield Investment cast reciever will outlast several barrels and the owner of the rifle, Lee Emerson wrote a book where they tested a Springfield Reciever with Cases packed with pistol powder and it still took twelve rounds of that way over pressure dangerous crap to even make the reciever start to fail.

Thats said, I haven't inspected one, but i suspect the SOCOM M1A has a larger gas port due to less barrel in front of the gas cylinder, this would cause a much more violent recoil impulse that would be be beating the hell out of the everythign behind the operating rod and bolt, and in the M1A the hammer is impacted by the bolt causing it to re cock, and SOCOMS break hammers. The whole action/reaction thing somethign the chain WILL GIVE if the force is stronger than normal.

I would get a Scout of standard length barrel if in question(The scout still has a longer barrel than the SOCOM, but is still short enough for inside work.

I don't ever recall saying that the cast Springfield or Armscorp/Fulton receivers were timebombs.....but one thing about having a cast receiver is that the dimensions have a greater tendency to not match up just right compared to the GI forged receivers, so sometimes getting a scope mount to work properly can be an issue. You're not going to wear out a Springfield or Armscorp receiver.

[Safetyhit]

Alright, first off, Investment castign is NOT the same as just mold casting where the metal is basically tin and lead like "Hot wheels" car.

People blow the whole Investment cast Vs. Forged thing way out of proportion. A springfield Investment cast reciever will outlast several barrels and the owner of the rifle, Lee Emerson wrote a book where they tested a Springfield Reciever with Cases packed with pistol powder and it still took twelve rounds of that way over pressure dangerous crap to even make the reciever start to fail.

Thats said, I haven't inspected one, but i suspect the SOCOM M1A has a larger gas port due to less barrel in front of the gas cylinder, this would cause a much more violent recoil impulse that would be be beating the hell out of the everythign behind the operating rod and bolt, and in the M1A the hammer is impacted by the bolt causing it to re cock, and SOCOMS break hammers. The whole action/reaction thing somethign the chain WILL GIVE if the force is stronger than normal.

I would get a Scout of standard length barrel if in question(The scout still has a longer barrel than the SOCOM, but is still short enough for inside work.

Great post, thank-you. Very specific and informative.

The SOCOM I liked at first, but then the 18" stole my long term attention. Not so much because I was aware of the failures, but rather the overall SOCOM platform seemed too short and bulky. Love the 18" though, been eying one up for years. Think now may be about the time.

[SilentREAPER]

Love my Springfield M1A.
18" Scout in a Sage Mod1 stock.
The aluminum stock is an instant bedding job.
I dont have it set up for long range shooting, but
with a scope it shot 1m.o.a.
I have the Aimpoint and a 3x magnifier, cause I tend to shoot
more close to medium range. To each his own.

[TOrrock]

Great post, thank-you. Very specific and informative.

The SOCOM I liked at first, but then the 18" stole my long term attention. Not so much because I was aware of the failures, but rather the overall SOCOM platform seemed too short and bulky. Love the 18" though, been eying one up for years. Think now may be about the time.

I think just about every RKI who posted in this thread said that if they were going to buy a M1A/M14 clone, it would have an 18" Criterion chrome lined barrel on it.....and I'd keep a GI synthetic stock on it.

They're not bad rifles, they're pretty damn good rifles, I just don't trust getting one that's good to go out of the box from Springfield. Back when I was behind the counter, I saw way too many have serious issues.

[Safetyhit]

They're not bad rifles, they're pretty damn good rifles, I just don't trust getting one that's good to go out of the box from Springfield. Back when I was behind the counter, I saw way too many have serious issues.

This is what gets me, but rather than speculate let me just ask...

If I or anyone went with the black synthetic 18", what would you suggest are the most important parts to upgrade immediately? No frills, just practical. Can't even say I'd use an optic, but maybe.

I am extremely close to pulling the trigger on this, but like the OP am also trying to understand what my total investment might be. In this case over and above the $1,600 for the rifle.

[Thomas M-4]

This is what gets me, but rather than speculate let me just ask...

If I or anyone went with the black synthetic 18", what would you suggest are the most important parts to upgrade immediately? No frills, just practical. Can't even say I'd use an optic, but maybe.

I am extremely close to pulling the trigger on this, but like the OP am also trying to understand what my total investment might be. In this case over and above the $1,600 for the rifle.

LRB has a barreled action for $2244 retail you also have the option for barrel length and chrome lining if you want. You might come out better going with LRB than getting a springfield up to par just the operating rod alone for a GI spec goes for $225 not to mention finding a reputable gunsmith and paying him labor and machine time. What I am trying to get at is the LRB will cost more up front but you may spend the same amount trying to get the SA rebuilt with GI parts.

[Serpico1985]

I'd say put 500 or a 1,000 rounds through it to see if you have any issues. There is always the chance that it will work well out of the box.

[Safetyhit]

I'd say put 500 or a 1,000 rounds through it to see if you have any issues. There is always the chance that it will work well out of the box.

I am looking for 20,000 rounds of durability, not 1,000. But that said I do understand and appreciate your point. In fact it brings up a better question.

While I love the platform it is not exactly my field of expertise. But I know enough to know that I want it to work every single time I pull the trigger. Still, what are the upgrades mandatory right away as opposed to the ideal ones down the line? Maybe one should concentrate on what is practical for the first 5,000 rounds initially and go from there. Can always upgrade a barrel after it has had at least some short-term use.

What does all that mean? Well, maybe someone like Templar could tell us what tends to go when, or under what circumstance. Not regarding a SOCOM, only 18" or longer.

Guess the question really should be what, if anything, is likely to fail immediately. When one states that the "out of the box" guns are prone to failure, is that literally right out of the box, or does that mean a gun that failed with just a few thousand rounds through it which had no previous upgrades done?

[Cobra66]

My Socom is now at the 500+ round point with no failures or problems at all (other than accuracy issues which I am working on). It has one of the new cast bolts on it which is of a concern to me so I am watching it. I can't comment on gas port size since I have not had a chance to compare the port on it versus my NM. But just as the shortened gas system on the M4 creates more wear issues than the M16s gas system, I have no problem believing that the Socoms short gas system is beating the rifle up more than on a full length M14. As a Socom owner, I just don't see any advantage the rifle offers over the 18" scout.

As far as upgrading parts, the general thought is that your best money spend would be on a GI bolt assembly (with extractor) and GI oprod. Also check out your trigger group, there have been a lot of reports of hammers failing. These are the parts that will take the most beating and the most critical to the operation of the rifle and seem to be the ones that are failing the most. As Templar has stated, the real issue with the cast receiver is not strength, it is just that dimensions of these receivers have a habit of being out of mil-spec which can lead to issues when trying to mount a 3 point scope mount, the ARMS #18 being the one that has the most issues. Sadlak mounts are more tolerant of out of spec receivers and will come with a kit to help you determine if your receiver is within spec, if not Sadlak offers smithing which will allow the mount to fit correctly. Other than that, a good SIA receiver should give you more than a life time of service.

[Safetyhit]

As far as upgrading parts, the general thought is that your best money spend would be on a GI bolt assembly (with extractor) and GI oprod. Also check out your trigger group, there have been a lot of reports of hammers failing. These are the parts that will take the most beating and the most critical to the operation of the rifle and seem to be the ones that are failing the most. As Templar has stated, the real issue with the cast receiver is not strength, it is just that dimensions of these receivers have a habit of being out of mil-spec which can lead to issues when trying to mount a 3 point scope mount, the ARMS #18 being the one that has the most issues. Sadlak mounts are more tolerant of out of spec receivers and will come with a kit to help you determine if your receiver is within spec, if not Sadlak offers smithing which will allow the mount to fit correctly. Other than that, a good SIA receiver should give you more than a life time of service.

One thing I know at this point is that there seems to be too much fundamental work that needs to be done for the friggin money spent. Why has this weapon apparently been allowed to regress to this extent?

Sure, I know civilian M4 variants have differences from military grade weapons. But it seems as though the civi SA M-14 version itself has regressed. Why?

Guess someone is looking at 2 G's minimum, likely more to get the thing up to par. Not ideal but I still may do it. Something about an AR-10 that just doesn't spark me like the M1A.