Gear loadout pics and descriptions

[Wake27]

You're right about 8 primary mags, but if you read closely you'll actually see that I'm set up for 2 pistol mags on the belt and 3 for a total of 5, and didn't mention if I want to throw one on the drop leg, so 6 secondary mags. And also if you further read I stated that these are set up independent of and compliment each other. The purpose of a belt is to reposition weight from shoulders to hips. Bulky, yes, and when I run these together I'll use 20 rounders on the belt. For the most part it will be belt, but if I want to run one or the other separate I can due to how this is set up. As far as SHTF or HD, I have no delusions of using this as that kind of set up.
For right now, I've got a lot of thought into how I have this set up, the whole 1st line, 2nd line train of thought and it works for me. But that's the beauty of using too much crap in training, you figure out what works and what doesn't. The GP pouches are about the only thing on there that may come off though. As far as the dropleg switching out to a Kydex, I've thought about it, but with me using pistol right handed and rifle left I draw primary mags with right hand,a Kydex holster will take away from that ability.
But I do appreciate the criticism.

I wore three double decker TACOs on my Velocity OUB for a pistol/carbine class. They worked great but I didn't use that third pouch as much as I thought I would. I'm taking a class with vehicles next month so I put the belt on and looked in the mirror - I felt huge, especially when I tried to stand in the doorway. I think it'll be the typical single primary and double secondary setup for my belt from now on. I've got pockets that hold AR mags well (VERTX pants) and my APC for other stuff, but there's no way I want to be climbing through vehicles or even walking through doors with the setup that I had.


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[sua175]

Gear validation is very important, while kit set up is to a degree a individual preference there are some general guidelines for setting up a effective kit.

A full combat load accessible from your first and second line is pretty much over kill. You can always carry more ammo in your ruck or assualt pack but chances are 99% of the time you will never need more than 4-6 primary mags in one firefight.

There are some exceptions to this rule as mission dictates equipment for example a deliberate attack, like an air assualt clearing mission, were you might not be sure when or how you will be resuplied, so carrying extra ammo will be a priority.

Bottom line define your mission or role and set up your equipment around that. For me a SHTF set up would be no more than 4-5 primary mags on my first and second line. Those pounds all add up especially over time. In a SHTF situation you will not have the ability to sustain a prolonged firefight and your offensive capability will be non existent. So your kit should reflect a defensive posture (enough ammo to defend yourself, and maybe brake contact). Don't think that in any STHF situation you will be doing D Day or call of duty shit becuase that is just unrealistic.

[Wake27]

Gear validation is very important, while kit set up is to a degree a individual preference there are some general guidelines for setting up a effective kit.

A full combat load accessible from your first and second line is pretty much over kill. You can always carry more ammo in your ruck or assualt pack but chances are 99% of the time you will never need more than 4-6 primary mags in one firefight.

There are some exceptions to this rule as mission dictates equipment for example a deliberate attack, like an air assualt clearing mission, were you might not be sure when or how you will be resuplied, so carrying extra ammo will be a priority.

Bottom line define your mission or role and set up your equipment around that. For me a SHTF set up would be no more than 4-5 primary mags on my first and second line. Those pounds all add up especially over time.

Good points. Basic combat load for our guys that actually shoot Marvin in the face is 6 magazines, plus 1 in the weapon for a total of 210 rounds. Hopefully that puts it in perspective.


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[holdover1]

This is my gear set up that I plan to run over the next few months and see how it does. I've had a plate carrier before and got rid of it, then I had a cheesy belt/suspenders (both were shitty Condor) so now I'm starting to get better kit and actually run it.

Plate Carrier
Shellback Tactical Banshee
LVL 4 stand alones
3 single TACOs in front
TQ
Right side CB
1 Double Decker TACO
SpecOps Brand 3 mag carrier-I have this one mounted and empty as I want to throw in some Esstac Shotshell carriers
Left side CB
SpecOps Brand double pistol mag holder
Unkown brand (not taking if off to look at label) GP/Admin pouch

Belt
Blackhawk Patrol Belt (Getting replaced with an Emdom MM CM once they have them back in stock)
Right side
2 single TACOs
Generic drop leg for my Smith SD40 and TLR1s
Benchmade Nimravus with a Benchmade Rescue Hook mounted to the sheath
Maxpedition Rolypolly dump pouch
Left Side
2 Double Deckers
Army issue IFAK

The money spent on 8x HSGI Tacos could have bought a Mayflower APC + Triple mag 'roo insert.

Likewise, the money spent on a Blackhawk belt and Fixed-Blade-Knife-o'-death (That is mostly inaccessible with all of that kit on, anyways) could probably have been put towards a Velocity OUB and a Cobra buckle base belt that won't "roll."

GP Pouches are Satan's way of ensuring that wearing kit is a painful experience. If you have it, you will fill it.

Drop-leg rigs suck for just about everything. With modern PC's, they are an anachronism.

I think you're misunderstanding the whole concept of 1st/2nd/3rd line kit. The idea isn't to have multiple redundancies between lines, but to be able to survive off your 1st, fight off your 2nd, and live off your 3rd. Furthermore, the idea of a layered offense should come into play long before you worry about dividing kit into "lines." For example, does your blade fit into your layered offense anywhere? If so, then it needs to be more accessible, preferably with both hands. If not, and you're using it for utilitarian/malfunction clearance tasks, there are other, smaller, handier tools for that (Leatherman MUT comes to mind).

Mobility is key. Adding any weight at all to the legs kills mobility, and increases your oxygen debt greatly. Moving the pistol to your belt will both speed up your draw (essential to ensuring economy within your layered offense) and enhance your mobility while reducing fatigue. The same can be said with moving those rifle mags from in front of your hips to the 3-4 o'clock position. Since you're cross-dominant, a rifle mag mounted behind your pistol (in a Safariland or G-Code 1.5'' drop) would be optimal for mobility and speed. 2x Pistol mags can then be mounted at your 10-11 o'clock. If you need more rifle mags, most pants have at least two magazine pouches built into the 7- and 5-o'clock. For belt mounted stuff, Kydex is king both for speed and security. No flaps or bungees to **** around with. Next to the pistol mags, a multitool wouldn't be a bad idea. The Army-issue IFAK pouch is an abomination. BFG, Mayflower, and ATS all make better alternatives, that are both faster to deploy and ambidextrous. Mounting it at 6 o'clock will do wonders for comfort when seated with a PC on, as well as making it accessible with both hands.

For your PC, again I recommend one with a Kangaroo pouch for mags. It keeps your front streamlined, and keeps the weight from the mags closer to your body, which goes a long way towards reducing the lever forces of weight displaced away from your body's natural support structure. Pistol mags on the PC are redundant, and if you're only wearing the PC and not a belt, you probably don't have your pistol anyways, so they can go. If you have a pouch, you will fill it, and often with useless garbage. The great thing about PC's like the APC is that they often have small admin pockets built into the top-front that don't inhibit mag draws but can still hold notebooks, chemlights, strobes, or anything that guys usually put in bulky GP/admin pouches. Define what, if anything you need to carry in something that is not a pocket (NODs come to mind), and get a pouch specifically for that item. Empty pouches are weight you don't need. Hell, most full pouches end up being weight you don't need and don't use.

I wish someone had told me all of this when I got my big SFLCS bag and spent an evening mounting SOMETHING to every available MOLLE web on my Eagle RBAV. Usually, guys who sharpshoot kit are doing so based on a frame of reference informed by some shitty times under some needlessly heavy loads. Either that, or they've spent so much time looking at pics of SEALs on the internet that they've magically discovered the "right" way to rig up kit.

Oh, and did I mention none of your kit is color-matched?

[sua175]

As with holdover1 I was overwhelmed as a cherry when I was issued my RLCS. Luckily I had some good tabs that straightened me out.

6 years later with multiple deployments under my belt and countless kit experimentation and re arangement here are some basic principles I have come to learn. Some of these have already been stated by holdover1.

1. Low profile is key. On the front part of my 2nd line I only run one row of 3 mags usually in a kangaroo type pouch. If you have ever had to low craw with kit on you will appreciate being as flat as possible on your front.

2. I used mag pouches that have positive retention such as bungee or a flap. I have seen mags fall out of eagle industries kydex happy mag pouches Becuase they did not offer enough retention. Exception being that I will sometimes have one mag that is designated as my speed reload witch will be in a pouch that allows for faster draw.

3. My NODs pouch stays on my left side on my cumberbund and is accessible by me. Meaning that I do not need a buddy to take out my nods for me. I have seen guys run nods on the back of Thier PC, I do not like this as you are always leaning your back or hitting your back in some violent manner. I feel that carry your nods on your back could have a high potential for breaking them.

4. I keep my IFAK on my first line. Keeps my second line low pro and light.

5. "generally" speaking I only keep 4-5 primary magazines that are accessible on my first and second line kit.

6. As said above, keep stuff such as drop legs off your legs. Belt mounted pistol holsters are the way to go. Better mobility and faster draw.

7. If a pistol is your secondary I carry a maximum of 3 mags counting the one in the gun. No need to have 4 or 5 secondary mags.

8. I always have a dump pouch on my first line, as you do not want to confuse empty/partial mags with full ones. In addition to empty mag stowage I found I always was in need of extra last minute on the battlefield carrying capacity (think extra grenade or 152 battery etc...)

I hope this makes sense and helps. Keep in mind this is of I set my kit up for military DA style raids.

[sgtbutt]

All good points being made. Most of my gear has been bought piecewise (and used from EE at a fraction of cost) so no color match and I could care less about that. As far as having things lower profile in front is why I went with 3 single Tacos as opposed to a 3 mag utility kind of pouch. With the fact that I have a 308 AR a universal mag shingle is out of the question. My fixed blade is there as utilitarian tool, my Leatherman does weigh more, so trade off is extra size. As for holster, I'm working with what I've had for some time now.
All of the advice is good and I'm glad this set up is getting nit picked. I think I've put more thought into this as individual components as opposed to a holistic idea. But once again thank you, this is my first go with belt and PC. I'm going out this weekend so it may look completely different afterwards.

[johnybuckshot]

Wow that's a lot of kit

[kaltesherz]

Lots of good info posted, esp from holdover1 and sua175.
Now that I have more time, I'll attempt to be a little more clear on my hopefully constructive criticism.

We're not trying to pick on you Sgt Buettner (you've got a nametape on your PC, so much for PERSEC), a lot- hell MOST people have way too much crap on their kit. We all started off like that, and through experience or others learned what we do, or more appropriately, don't need.

Reevaluate what the purpose of your kit is. SHTF? Home defense? Or as you're ARNG, maybe work? I can't think of any that you'd need more than 6 primary and 2 secondary mags. In most cases (except .mil), you'd be better off with 3 primary's... tops. Keep the dump pouch and IFAK (while the issue one isn't the best it's still effective), but get a new belt based holster (I've been using a Safariland ALS with a 1.5 drop and it's tits). If you sell your extra Taco pouches, GP pouches, and that fixed blade on an EE you should have more than enough to upgrade holsters & belt, plus maybe a decent hydration source.

After streamlining your kit, train with it. A lot. I'm not talking about running around the house in it a couple times, but spend a whole day shooting with friends out in the country in it. Spend a lot of time in the prone and low crawl - does anything catch? Are you able to get low enough without extra crap pushing you up? You shouldn't have to fight anything on your kit. Better yet take a weekend shooting course like those with Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, or Pat McNamara. The point of those classes is to be a better gunfighter, but you'll figure out what works and doesn't work along the way.

[sgtbutt]

Lots of good info posted, esp from holdover1 and sua175.
Now that I have more time, I'll attempt to be a little more clear on my hopefully constructive criticism.

We're not trying to pick on you Sgt Buettner (you've got a nametape on your PC, so much for PERSEC), a lot- hell MOST people have way too much crap on their kit. We all started off like that, and through experience or others learned what we do, or more appropriately, don't need.

Reevaluate what the purpose of your kit is. SHTF? Home defense? Or as you're ARNG, maybe work? I can't think of any that you'd need more than 6 primary and 2 secondary mags. In most cases (except .mil), you'd be better off with 3 primary's... tops. Keep the dump pouch and IFAK (while the issue one isn't the best it's still effective), but get a new belt based holster (I've been using a Safariland ALS with a 1.5 drop and it's tits). If you sell your extra Taco pouches, GP pouches, and that fixed blade on an EE you should have more than enough to upgrade holsters & belt, plus maybe a decent hydration source.

After streamlining your kit, train with it. A lot. I'm not talking about running around the house in it a couple times, but spend a whole day shooting with friends out in the country in it. Spend a lot of time in the prone and low crawl - does anything catch? Are you able to get low enough without extra crap pushing you up? You shouldn't have to fight anything on your kit. Better yet take a weekend shooting course like those with Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, or Pat McNamara. The point of those classes is to be a better gunfighter, but you'll figure out what works and doesn't work along the way.

Yes, you are right about National Guard, the reason for trying to get my own kit is train as close as I can to issued armor without using issued armor (big no-no that I'm not getting involved in). And trust me I know you guys aren't "picking" on me but I want the "nit picking" of the components which is what guys have been doing. But I think you nailed it as far as putting too much crap on, as it was the gear I had laying around. Reading the previous comments/advice I will most likely be slimming down mag quantities.

Like I said above I'm going out this weekend shooting with the wife and teaching her some things, so after running a few drills and positions I know I'll have a better idea of what to go and what not to. As for a class, I'm looking at going to a somewhat local carbine course in June if I have the time. While not Rogers or Vickers (wish I could get in one of their classes), any course will help me better off with my gear selection. The thing about me putting too much gear on is that I will actually spend time evaluating what is good and what is unnecessary once I start running it. The whole idea is to be able to take the belt, and transpose gear from personal to issued vest, and be setup for the next deployment, which who knows at this point.

[Wake27]

Yes, you are right about National Guard, the reason for trying to get my own kit is train as close as I can to issued armor without using issued armor (big no-no that I'm not getting involved in).

Well in that case your kit may be perfect just the way it is. I felt like I was 300 pounds trying to maneuver in an up-armored with an IBA, pouches stacked to SOP, pro mask bag, and a damn musket this past week

Joking aside though, I know what you mean about evaluating each piece and not the whole setup. My limited experience reflects everything that has been said, though I do like having one medium sized GP pouch when in the field. I make an effort to use it only as necessary, but its nice having a pouch that I can throw shit into when we need to go ASAP and I don't have to worry about anything falling out.