Times change, do you?

[RogerinTPA]

F2S, I agree with much of what you have to say about building the "toolbox" but would like to add, that anyone who attends a course with such a myopic mindset, is wasting their time, money and a valuable training resource (The course he/she has signed up for). If a student is unwilling, unable, or incapable of grasping the course content, because of brain lock, personal stubbornness, preference, or "cult following" of a previous training methodology, then it is his loss and no amount of new skill training will change his mindset. On the other hand, a good student will absorb all the available information presented, then mold that info, along with previous training (Toolbox), to choose which TTPs to apply, which are (here's another catch phase) "situationally dependent" to his/her's, own particular set of circumstances. Variety in training, I feel, is a key to learning.

Your sigline says it all.

[rob_s]

Physical fitness
Weight training, or at the very least, regular PT is extremely important. The bigger and stronger you are, the better you can shoot. I would say that routine pushups, situps, pullups, and running improved my shooting more than anything else. I still need to do weight training to improve shooting speed.

I don't know that I agree with the "bigger and stronger" portion, but certainly the premise of physical fitness. And it's not just about being able to get through a class, it's about reality. And the reality is that virtually everyone you see on the line next to you in a training class is going to die of bad health choices they have made and NOT from anything that they could prevent with the skills they are learning that day.

[markm]

Physical fitness
Weight training, or at the very least, regular PT is extremely important. The bigger and stronger you are, the better you can shoot. I would say that routine pushups, situps, pullups, and running improved my shooting more than anything else. I still need to do weight training to improve shooting speed.

I think a fitness standard is perhaps a better way to go then simply getting as big as you can. One should be able to bench 110% of his weight and at least run 2 miles without passing out before he worries if his rail covers will match his UBR stock.

[epf]

I think a fitness standard is perhaps a better way to go then simply getting as big as you can. One should be able to bench 110% of his weight and at least run 2 miles without passing out before he worries if his rail covers will match his UBR stock.

This may be the most overlooked factor in the "tactical" community. Specifically for non-military types who are not forced into a daily PT routine.

Any fight is inherently physical. Whether you have been punched in the face or taken fire on a patrol, if the fight is not over after the first exchange, it becomes an endurance test.

We are fortunate to live in a time when techniques have been vetted and shared due to our ability to communicate and archive information in places like this site. The best technique will break down quickly if you are not physically prepared.

[markm]

The best technique will break down quickly if you are not physically prepared.

Exactly. Run 50 yards, jump a wall and then take that rife or pistol shot. It starts to become a lot different.

[YammyMonkey]

Over the last few years the biggest thing for me has been seeking out the why as opposed to the what. A lot of the time I'm more concerned with why someone teaches/uses a technique than all the details of the technique itself. After practicing a particular draw technique (for instance) in class I can have a pretty decent grasp on the subject, go back home, practice & refine it & make it mine. If I don't understand why the instructor teaches it though I could very well be practicing something that has no application in my life.

I've found a few things that I will not mess with. It's not because I'm wrapped up in some mystique or because I'm a stubborn ass but because it works & I have a very thorough understanding of the why behind them.

I've gotten over the idea that a particular class will make me a super duper Gringo Pistolero. A class may give me some of the tools to work with, but it's up to me to put in the time & effort to put those training tools to use.

My experience with the gear, carbine vs pistol time, etc. has mirrored a lot of what other people have experienced with the same lessons learned & reality checks.

[TOrrock]

I don't have time to make a meaningful post, but I'm going to make this a stuck thread, at least temporarily, as I feel it has some outstanding content.

[John Frazer]

I've learned that the single most important skill for a student is critical thinking about the skills and techniques a trainer teaches, and the drills used to teach them:

1. What is my mission? The primary possibilities are military, police and private citizen, with endless possible variations within each group.

2. Does this skill or technique make sense for my mission?

3. Do the drills employed help me learn the skill or technique?

Skills and techniques that don't support your mission, or drills that don't help you learn the skills and techniques you do need, may be cool. But they do have a cost in terms of time that could be better spent on other skills, techniques or drills.

Much the same goes for equipment, as several here have touched on.

For example, I tried a Redi-Mag for a 2-day class this weekend with InSights Training Center. People who have to carry the carbine around their necks all day have legitimate reasons not to like the device due to its added weight and because you have to manipulate the gun differently. On the other hand, people who have to carry carbines around all day also usually wear spare mags on their belts or chest rigs.

For those of us who don't carry carbines and spare mags all day, the Redi-Mag makes a lot of sense. If you have the gun, you have a reload. I had to learn new ways of handling both speed and tactical reloads, and some slight changes to malfunction drills, but those tradeoffs make sense for my "mission" as a private citizen.

[subzero]

I've learned that "advanced" is just a mastery of the basics.

Very true. I've found that everything you do in addition to regular square range shooting doubles your groups (or more). Start moving, doulbe the group. Low light on the move, double it again. Stress? Double it again if not more. That's why the fundamentals of grips, stance, sight alignment and trigger control mean so much.

I know I'd be happiest in the gun business, but only if I didn't have to rely on it to eat.

Quite so.

Finally, even though I am still training with it and mucking around with it, I've come to the conclusion that carbine is a waste of time for 99% of us. It's enjoyable because it's flashy and easy (or at least easier) and there's more to do in terms of bolt-ons and support gear, but the carbine is not my primary. For virtually everyone outside the military they should be focusing on the handgun, and their carry handgun at that. Practicing with a 5" 1911 and carrying a S&W snubbie isn't much better than wasting a lot of time with the carbine. This isn't to say that the carbine is totally useless, or that one shouldn't train with it, but I see a trend where people spend 90% of their training time and dollars on carbine ant 10% on handgun, when IMHO that ratio should be inverted.

That, to me, is one of the biggest misconceptions out there. So many places seem so focused on the carbine because it's neat and easy to shoot. But pistol is so much more applicable to daily life for the vast majority of us. It's also harder to shoot, so less fun. I wonder what guys really learn when I see classes with 1000+ rounds of carbine fired and <200 of pistol. My carbines don't get shot nearly as much now as they used to, and I'm thinking that's a good thing. I can focus on pistol trigger control and work carbine reloads and manipulations dry at home, save ammo and still become a better shooter.

[YVK]

"50% of what you are going to learn here will be proven wrong in next 10 years. The problem is that we don't know which 50%" - attributed to a dean of a big school addressing new class. Pretty much applies to everything in life...

So many places seem so focused on the carbine because it's neat and easy to shoot.

I actually have had hard time getting into a reputable pistol class this year. Carbine has not been a problem - feels like supply is larger here. Actually, this appears to have been a pattern for a few years. My round count ratio is 4:1 pistol to carbine, but most of pistol shooting done by myself, while almost all carbine shooting is done in classes.