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Member
You don't read as much about problems with the 23 simply because they aren't as commonly issued, but they are out there. I'm sorry I can't be more specific. I thought they were mentioned in some of those threads. I might have some info. saved on my work computer and will post it if I can find it. I don't recall light issues with the G21, but I can't say for sure.
Good luck with the 23 and light, hopefully it works out for you.
Member
I have read at least one post on this thread that likens the failure issues of the M22 or M23 to the ".40's in general." UNTRUE!!! I am not on the Glock design team but I can vouch for the effectiveness of the .40 cal round especially 165 to 180 grain HP's coming out of these pistols and its reliability. It is the mag springs that are the issue as discussed by members on this thread who are in the know or are experienced with the M22's and M23's or Glocks in general.
When running a light on one of the .40 cal variants, 9mm variants or even the 45 variants it is important to get the enhanced or new mag springs from Glock. I have been running anything from a Glock light, TLR-1, and an M6 for about 6 years now, daily on my service M22's. This gun is used in an I have to count on this gun environment. My organization began to experience issues on the range with failures to feed and the slides failing to lock to the rear after the magazine was empty around 2004. Several calls to Glock and a couple of armors notifications later Glock informed us that the issue is that a Glock polymer frame is meant to provide a slight degree of flex when the weapon is recoiling after a round has been discharged. When a light is attached to the frame rails it acts as a reinforcement or bridge in the frame therefore not allowing for that "acceptable" degree of flex. The 1st generation magazines have also been engineered to allow for that flex without a light attached to the frame and with the light on it places the mag spring under an added degree of stress when it is feeding rounds and so the effect is that the mag springs wear out faster. Here is where your problem lies.
In this day and age where so many lights are now being utilized, introduced, or operated on these guns on an every day basis it exposed that engineering flaw. Glock then redesigned the magazine springs with a different or stiffer spring ratio from what was out there before to compensate for the lights and dramatically increase reliability. Before we saw any real mag issues with the 1st generation mags or unenhanced mag springs we had thousands of rounds through these individual pistols and the mags where loaded to capacity and usually never unloaded and rotated out.
Last edited by shootmovecomm; 05-30-09 at 17:30. Reason: clarity
Senior Member
Originally Posted by shootmovecomm
This has been discussed over and over...
Its slide velocity, with a light attached the frame does not flex as much, increasing the slides velocity, and the magazine can not keep up.
The new springs do not always solve the problem. Each gun is an individual. The problem only seems to appear in the .40cal gun. Its not a problem with the round, the gun was not fully re-engineered to handle the .40cal round. When lights were added to the equation failures went up.
I do not think I've ever seen or heard of a problem with lights attached to a 9mm or 45 glock. The only problems I've heard of with the G21 was some fails to fire, attributed to some out of spec part, that escapes me right now, or, according to Glock a lack of maintenance, but they came out with a new part.
Right now, it would appear that if you are running or intend to run a light on a .40cal Glock, you are taking your chances.
Bob
Member
People are going to believe what they want but this post is right on the money.
Member
Fair enough and I understand your concerns. When you say the frame was not reengineered to handle the .40 you are referencing the fact that they slapped the .40 slide, barrel, etc on to the 9mm frame? I would agree that in essence that sends up a red flag however when the rubber is put to the pavement there has been no problems since mag spring replacement. I know of at least one U.S. military organization that is currently utilizing the M22 overseas operationally with Surefire x200's and X300's. Havent heard of any significant complaints as of yet.
Last edited by shootmovecomm; 05-30-09 at 19:21. Reason: clarity
Senior Member
In essence they only changed the mag and barrel at first, the slide is the same as is the recoil spring.
New guns, are supposedly addressing the issue.
Again, every gun is different. What ammo, round count, particular light, alignment of the stars, all play a role.
My last employment had no issues running M3 lights and ball ammo, switched to TLR1's and Ranger JHP and trouble ensued.
Bob
Member
Bob, I will agree with the individuality of a gun and the slight deviations that can and will cause them to perfom differently. The issuse that we were having was with the very first Glock tactical lights with the "old type" magazine springs shooting Winchester Ranger 165 grain. I have never pushed FMJ's through the gun. Mainly Winchester Ranger, Speer, and Remington. In actual recorded shootings the Winchester has thus far perfromed the best. It's funny that you should say TLR1's and Rangers used in conjunction caused the problems. Due to the fact that we have ALOT of both fielded out that maybe something to heed.
Last edited by shootmovecomm; 05-30-09 at 20:13. Reason: detail
Senior Member
When we had all of the issues with our G22s we only had one guy with a G23. His gun didn't run either.
We had 350 G22s, and one G23, so the sample on G23s is rather small.
I have talked to other folks at various LE agencies who have had issues with G23s, but as was said above there are not nearly as many 23s as 22s.
shootmove, your info applies depending on what time frame your Glock .40 was made.
I had 5 personal Glock .40s that didn't have any issues. The 350 my department bought wouldn't run.
Milwaukee and Detroit, most recently, are going to the M&P for very good reasons.
The Glock 9mms, in my testing, run like an AK. Any ammo, any light, loose or strong grip, dirty or not, they run.
Member
tpd223,
EBR and FEX are the lettering series on the serial numbers. We have been getting them in since 2000. What are the letter series on those guns that have had the issues? I am also curious to know what was Glock' s response to these issues and the remedy? If you are able to elaborate what was the ammo (make, manufacture, grain)? and were you running a light and what brand or brands?
Last edited by shootmovecomm; 05-30-09 at 23:28.
Senior Member
Our were H serial numer Glocks.
Your guns were made before the frame change/redesign in the winter of 2005.
I would expect that if you guys kept up with the PMCS, such as getting new recoil springs installed every 2000 rounds, that your guns should be GTG.
My personal Glock .40s were in the C, F and G range, no issues to speak of.
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