HK416 production suspended due to combat failure?

[ToddG]

Born of a concept developed by the USMC, the Infantry Automatic Rifle represents a weapon system designed to combat today’s modern threats. With the majority of today’s conflicts occurring in built-up urban landscapes, and battles becoming faster and more fluid, the designated SAW gunner needs a lighter, handier, more reliable, and surgically precise weapon. The M6A4™ rifle fulfills this need and then some!

How many M6A4's is USMC buying, again?

[Mac679]

It'll be interesting to see, given all the reports of excellent reliability from US end-users, how much of this report is a design inherent problem vs how much of it is from things that may have been spec'd by the Norwegian Army.

[stanlyonjr]

Whats the cost or a 416 as compared to a Colt M4? Anyone??

[MikeCLeonard]

Holy crap an informative post on TOS? GTFO!

ETA: Oh man I f'ing love it. Here is a foreign, professional solder posting real world experiences and issues with a weapon platform. Yeah they're less than favorable, and yeah "how dare you insult HK! I like pie" crap. So what does he get for it? He gets torn apart for it by jack ass dip shits who've probably never even seen a real 416 much less employed one in a real world role as an infantry man's primary weapon system. Un****ingbelievable.

Some highlights:

"MMMMMMMM........kay.....That's exactly opposite from everything I've heard from guys running that platform."

Are you running it? No? Then STFU!!!

"Oh yeah, I'm sure they're absolute junk"

Guess what A-hole, contrary to what you've read on the airsoft forums yeah it sure seems to be that way now doesn't it?

Actually, I'm pretty sure the guy who said that does or did deploy a 416 for his own use. I think he's in the military and might actually have first hand knowledge of what the end users think about it too.

Not positive on that, but just don't assume that nobody else has any real experience before you bash them.

[decodeddiesel]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the guy who said that does or did deploy a 416 for his own use. I think he's in the military and might actually have first hand knowledge of what the end users think about it too.

Not positive on that, but just don't assume that nobody else has any real experience before you bash them.

I made my comment based on his comment. I quote "MMMMMMMM........kay.....That's exactly opposite from everything I've heard from guys running that platform.

Yeah his avatar would indicate he's in the military. Well guess what? So was I. Maybe he's spent time in Iraq with some HSLD types that have employed the 416. Guess what? SO HAVE I. Has he personally used the weapon? Nope, not by his comments. So does that make him qualified to form a compelling argument against a professional with first hand experience on the platform? Not by a long shot. His obvious sarcasm with the "MMMMMMM...kay..." crap indicates he is being argumentative to the facts and findings posted by the OP.

[decodeddiesel]

Not positive on that, but just don't assume that nobody else has any real experience before you bash them.

Oh and as far as general credibility on AR15.com? Until presented proof to the contrary everything and everyone on that site is suspect, ergo I will assume you are a 18 year old airsofting booger eater until proven otherwise, especially when you pull some crap like he did.

[1SFG]

I ran a 416 off and on from 11/2007 through 11/2008. No issues with the weapon other than one cheap magazine given to me with the gun that ended up being a major pain in the ass to remove. Other than that, the gun ran fine, to include putting a couple thousand rounds down range on training days, and putting rounds in a few squirters during several operations. Temperatures ranged from low 30's (to include the Baghdad snow day in 2007) to over 120 degrees. My backup gun was a Colt Commando, which saw as much use, if not more, but primarily because the HK weighed so much more and I was looking shed weight whenever possible. If you've had to roll around with a CIRAS rig with soft inserts and lev IV plates, plus all the other crap hanging off the vest then you'd understand my thought process there. My particular organization continues to field the rifle to at least one of our full time teams operating worldwide in a PSD type roll, and I've seen no reports from other operators regarding widespread failures. That's not to say that failures haven't occurred, but if they have, they haven't been enough to stop using the rifle in an organization where money and equipment is generally not a problem for the number of rifles we're issuing. We were running the 10.5 inch version.

[decodeddiesel]

I ran a 416 off and on from 11/2007 through 11/2008. No issues with the weapon other than one cheap magazine given to me with the gun that ended up being a major pain in the ass to remove. Other than that, the gun ran fine, to include putting a couple thousand rounds down range on training days, and putting rounds in a few squirters during several operations. Temperatures ranged from low 30's (to include the Baghdad snow day in 2007) to over 120 degrees. My backup gun was a Colt Commando, which saw as much use, if not more, but primarily because the HK weighed so much more and I was looking shed weight whenever possible. If you've had to roll around with a CIRAS rig with soft inserts and lev IV plates, plus all the other crap hanging off the vest then you'd understand my thought process there. My particular organization continues to field the rifle to at least one of our full time teams operating worldwide in a PSD type roll, and I've seen no reports from other operators regarding widespread failures. That's not to say that failures haven't occurred, but if they have, they haven't been enough to stop using the rifle in an organization where money and equipment is generally not a problem for the number of rifles we're issuing. We were running the 10.5 inch version.

It appears the Norwegan Army version is a 14.5" with some specific "upgrades" from the normal 10.5" 416. Perhaps that's where most of the problems lie?

[1SFG]

No telling brother. Ours were pretty much stock. Most of the guys ran EOtechs, some of us ran Aimpoints. None of us ran them suppressed, but I'm sure they've been tested in that configuration. I'll have to check with some guys who perform a different function but run the same platform to see if they've had any issues with modifications. But there's so much that comes into play in fielding any weapon system, particularly in a combat zone. Maintenance, to include lubrication intervals, type of lubricant used, parts used if modified, exposure to elements and steps taken to mitigate any extreme environmental issues. In big units - guns tend to be manhandled, stored in mass quantities in lockers, etc. In our case, once you checked out your rifle, it's yours. If you secure it while on R&R, when you return you go to the armory and give the guy your serial number and your rifle comes back and you know no one dicked around with it.

Of course, as is often the case, any failure of a system will be reported instantly on the internet (I see this on car discussion forums I frequent). For every 20 "this thing sucks" post, there might be 1 "xxx number of rounds to date, no issues here" post. Adding to the issue is the fact that at least here in the US, the rifle isn't being fielded in great quantities, which further amplifies the effect of any failure reportings. I'm going to shoot an email out to the some of the other teams on my work system next week and see what the feedback has been, but we've been deploying the system for several years now and so far the overall feedback has been positive, to include my time with the rifle for most of last year. I haven't tried one of the newer build date models which apparently have a lighter barrel. So far the weight of the gun has been my biggest beef.

[ToddG]

From H&K: They have not repeat not shut down production of the 416 and in fact continue to produce them at maximum rate to meet demand by LE/mil around the world.

I've also been unable to find any evidence corroborating the claim that there have been "catastrophic failures in combat." No one outside the internet has ever heard of such a thing.

Clue.

I believe what we have are some isolated instances of 416's that aren't running perfectly after x-thousand rounds, combined with the mythical status of the 416 as some kind of ultra-uber-gun. So as soon as someone has a problem, it gets blown up into paranoiac TEOT416AWKI shenanigans.