Castle nut staking, why the big deal?

[exkc135driver]

Is the correct torque 40+/-2 IN-lbs or 40+/-2 FT-lbs??? It do make a difference.

I suspect the latter, but what do I know?

And, what's the best way to secure the receiver when you're doing this?

[Iraqgunz]

As was posted earlier in the thread it is 40 +/- In. Lbs., not Ft. Lbs.

Using a upper receiver vise block is the best way.

Is the correct torque 40+/-2 IN-lbs or 40+/-2 FT-lbs??? It do make a difference.

I suspect the latter, but what do I know?

And, what's the best way to secure the receiver when you're doing this?

[M&P45]

I posted a question about staking in the KAC forum. Here is their response. Link Not what I expected but I guess we will agree to disagree on this one...

[KevinB]

I've never had a problem with guns that I loctited and torqued.

I've staked some too - and for guns that I swap stocks on, I don't do much more than torque them on - I've had that come back to bite me, as I forgot it was not staked and had them back off during training.

I would say that ofr 99.9% of us, either using loctite or staking, after proper torquing will suffice. If I was jumping or otherwise using the carbien roughly I would want it staked.

[C4IGrant]

I posted a question about staking in the KAC forum. Here is their response. Link Not what I expected but I guess we will agree to disagree on this one...

They are most likely correct in that a properly torqued castle nut is not going to go anywhere. The problem is that I would trust VERY few companies to do this right and would generally error on the side of caution and stake the castle nut.

Blue loctite on a RE is most likely fine (if you had to remove it).
Red loctite on a RE is NOT fine.


C4

[KevinB]

P.S. Gasket sealant is not good either (never get if off...)

[rob_s]

I will always take a mechanical attachment over a chemical attachment, and hardly consider staking dicking anything up.

[dcmdon]

Rob,
If you read the thread from the begining you will see that I've been an advocate of Loctite in general. Its great stuff.

But staking it has 2 differentiating benefits:

1) it secures the nut to the end plate, not to the buffer tube. As the designers intended.

2) in an armory environment, staking allows for visual confirmation that the assembly is secure and will not come apart. (Just like safety wiring on aircraft) Loctite does not.

So staking isnt better because its mechanical. Its better because it puts the derotation forces into the correct component (the end plate, not the buffer tube) and because its visually confirmable.

There is loctite all around you, keeping you safe in places you dont even realize. At keeping threaded connectors together Loctite can be FAR more secure than staking. But for the reasons above, it is not prefered in this application.

[rob_s]

None of which is contrary to what I posted.

Here's the thing. Most people that are stuck on the Locktite for the castle nut are stuck there for the wrong reasons. They bought some lesser quality carbine, and as part of their need to validate their purchase (and their selection process and knowledgebase) they start defending the use of Locktite because to acknowledge that it's less than ideal or, to a lesser degree, not to "milspec" somehow besmirches their manhood.

As I always say, I really don't care what people do with their own personal possessions. Put 87 octane in your Corvette, run your Range Rover on retreads, buy used range balls to whack around with your Great Big Bertha, try to run a marathon in a pair of Chuck Taylors, whatever. But, someone starts asking for advice or what other people think, and then turns out to only wants to be validated not actually advised...

I have seen castle nuts come loose. I have talked to the people that have had them come loose, and I have had some of them tell me they have Locktite on them. I don't know if it's true or not as I usually don't really care much past the point that I ask if they want help and they in turn get snippy and childish and I walk away. However, to date I haven't personally seen a staked castle nut come loose. The Colts I buy are staked, AFAIK the "milspec" calls for them to be staked, and it's always worked well for me and for everyone else I've seen stake them. I will continue to stake mine and anyone else that will let me stake theirs, and advocate it as a much better solution than putting glue on it. Whether people choose to take that advice, or let me work on their guns, is entirely up to them.

[Iraqgunz]

Vielen Dank!

None of which is contrary to what I posted.

Here's the thing. Most people that are stuck on the Locktite for the castle nut are stuck there for the wrong reasons. They bought some lesser quality carbine, and as part of their need to validate their purchase (and their selection process and knowledgebase) they start defending the use of Locktite because to acknowledge that it's less than ideal or, to a lesser degree, not to "milspec" somehow besmirches their manhood.

As I always say, I really don't care what people do with their own personal possessions. Put 87 octane in your Corvette, run your Range Rover on retreads, buy used range balls to whack around with your Great Big Bertha, try to run a marathon in a pair of Chuck Taylors, whatever. But, someone starts asking for advice or what other people think, and then turns out to only wants to be validated not actually advised...

I have seen castle nuts come loose. I have talked to the people that have had them come loose, and I have had some of them tell me they have Locktite on them. I don't know if it's true or not as I usually don't really care much past the point that I ask if they want help and they in turn get snippy and childish and I walk away. However, to date I haven't personally seen a staked castle nut come loose. The Colts I buy are staked, AFAIK the "milspec" calls for them to be staked, and it's always worked well for me and for everyone else I've seen stake them. I will continue to stake mine and anyone else that will let me stake theirs, and advocate it as a much better solution than putting glue on it. Whether people choose to take that advice, or let me work on their guns, is entirely up to them.