Gen 4 Glock 20 and hot Hard Cast lead ammo

[kirkland]

Sorry to start another Glock thread. But I've been wanting to get a Glock 20 for a long time, finally picked one up, a gen 4. I'm planning on trying some of Underwood's 200gr hard cast ammo. I'd like to use it as a woods carry gun. Browsing a bunch of forum archives, there's a lot of conflicting opinions online about this setup. I would like to keep the gun factory stock and not go the aftermarket barrel route. Some say upgrade the recoil spring, but that seems to apply more to the Gen3 and earlier Glocks with the single spring. Anybody try this setup with Underwood's current hard cast ammo with a Gen 4 Glock 20 with factory RSA and factory barrel and mag springs? Once I get the ammo and the gun (stupid 10 day waiting period) I'll take them to the range to function test. But I'd still like to hear anybody else's experience.

[Ron3]

Sorry to start another Glock thread. But I've been wanting to get a Glock 20 for a long time, finally picked one up, a gen 4. I'm planning on trying some of Underwood's 200gr hard cast ammo. I'd like to use it as a woods carry gun. Browsing a bunch of forum archives, there's a lot of conflicting opinions online about this setup. I would like to keep the gun factory stock and not go the aftermarket barrel route. Some say upgrade the recoil spring, but that seems to apply more to the Gen3 and earlier Glocks with the single spring. Anybody try this setup with Underwood's current hard cast ammo with a Gen 4 Glock 20 with factory RSA and factory barrel and mag springs? Once I get the ammo and the gun (stupid 10 day waiting period) I'll take them to the range to function test. But I'd still like to hear anybody else's experience.

I did use the hot stuff in a G20 and later a G20sf or Gen 4 (I can't recall at the moment)

The really hot stuff would cause the occasional malfunction. Messing around with aftermarket springs, etc, increased the number of malfunctions.

I don't have them anymore.

I recommend not going beyond "warm" loads for maximum reliability.

200 gr at 1100 fps, 180 gr at 1200 fps, that sort of range.

I never tried anything over 200 grs because when I'd read / watch reviews malfunctions seemed common.

I'd go with a hardcast 200 gr @1100 fps for woods protection/ penetration. Not a super-wide meplat, either. Just a common shape.

Underwood is normally hot stuff, I've fired quite a bit of it. I'd want 40 rounds with zero malfunctions from the gun before relying on it. You'll need good grip and recoil control. It's not a combination for a novice. (Not saying you are)

[kirkland]

I did use the hot stuff in a G20 and later a G20sf or Gen 4 (I can't recall at the moment)

The really hot stuff would cause the occasional malfunction. Messing around with aftermarket springs, etc, increased the number of malfunctions.

I don't have them anymore.

I recommend not going beyond "warm" loads for maximum reliability.

200 gr at 1100 fps, 180 gr at 1200 fps, that sort of range.

I never tried anything over 200 grs because when I'd read / watch reviews malfunctions seemed common.

I'd go with a hardcast 200 gr @1100 fps for woods protection/ penetration. Not a super-wide meplat, either. Just a common shape.

Underwood is normally hot stuff, I've fired quite a bit of it. I'd want 40 rounds with zero malfunctions from the gun before relying on it. You'll need good grip and recoil control. It's not a combination for a novice. (Not saying you are)

Thanks for the input. Yeah I'm hoping to get around 50 shots without a malf with the hard cast to start out with. It's expensive ammo but worth testing at least that much for reliability. I'll probably run 100-200 regular fmj target ammo first just to break the gun in. If the hard cast ammo malfs, I'll look into different ammo for woods carry. But I figure if I can get through that much without malfing, I would be pretty comfortable carrying it.

[DoubleW]

The conventional wisdom is that the G20 is not as reliable with heavy hard cast loads as it is with standard jacketed 10mm loads. It seems it can be reliable and it varies from gun to gun, but it’s luck of the draw and any load needs to be vetted carefully. If I remember correctly, the G29 was more reliable with hard cast bear loads as it exhibited less frame flex during firing.

There was a guy on another forum who lives in Alaska and is in the woods a lot who gave up on the whole 10mm concept and started carrying a USP 45 with 45 Supers.

[kirkland]

The conventional wisdom is that the G20 is not as reliable with heavy hard cast loads as it is with standard jacketed 10mm loads. It seems it can be reliable and it varies from gun to gun, but it’s luck of the draw and any load needs to be vetted carefully. If I remember correctly, the G29 was more reliable with hard cast bear loads as it exhibited less frame flex during firing.

There was a guy on another forum who lives in Alaska and is in the woods a lot who gave up on the whole 10mm concept and started carrying a USP 45 with 45 Supers.

Thanks. It's hard to find info about this topic. Hickok45 has put up a few videos testing hard cast through different generations of Glock 20's, he seemed to have had pretty good luck with the 200gr which is why I figured I'd try that combo. I had considered trying to put together a 460 Rowland, but it seemed like a factory 10mm pistol would be the more reliable option. Once I finally get to the range I'll come back here to report the success or failure.

[DoubleW]

And if all else fails, an HK USP/45/45C in .45 Super seems to be the “Field Pistol” answer. They are one of the few, if not only, guns that can fire a steady diet of super without modification.

[Krazykarl]

And if all else fails, an HK USP/45/45C in .45 Super seems to be the “Field Pistol” answer. They are one of the few, if not only, guns that can fire a steady diet of super without modification.

Would a SW 4506 be able to play the 45 super game?

[DoubleW]

Would a SW 4506 be able to play the 45 super game?

That I don’t know. Most guns require at least a heavier recoil spring and firing pin spring.

[NorthDakota]

Thanks. It's hard to find info about this topic. Hickok45 has put up a few videos testing hard cast through different generations of Glock 20's, he seemed to have had pretty good luck with the 200gr which is why I figured I'd try that combo. I had considered trying to put together a 460 Rowland, but it seemed like a factory 10mm pistol would be the more reliable option. Once I finally get to the range I'll come back here to report the success or failure.

Not to stray too far from the hard cast question, but I've found these links to be extremely interesting with useful info to glean from them.

These 2 take a look at various aspects of bear defense from an Alaskan Guide to stopped a bear with a 9mm and the other with some drills/tests:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UANI6U-SL4o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We_aHSA2Pbc



And here is the forum thread on the most extensive testing I've seen. Very good information here. Be sure to scroll through all the pages as the story takes it twists and turns:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-FN-and-G5-20&

Personally, I divested from 10mm (a bit of a contrarian move considering the market), and the platforms I had (G20, G40, TRP) to fund more HK USP and P30 series pistols.

My decision matrix involved considerations for:

-cost of ammunition to become proficient under stress - I run 9mm, .40, .45 much more often than 10mm
-cost of boutique but quality bear defense ammunition - does one actually spend the $$ to train with said loads
-effectiveness of calibers less than 10mm, which still managed to stop threats - I admit being influenced by the data out there as mentioned in the links above, by those who stopped threats via "run what you brung"
-chances of actually needing a 10mm in my locale to ward off threat using a platform I'm proficient with, while stoked with the right ammo for that occasion

Enjoy the learning along the way!