Palmetto State Armory AR’s - I’m impressed

[ViniVidivici]

Oh no friend, not seen as argument at all, and you're 100% correct about said standard.

Hell, even if an agency HAS a good armorer, how much work is he gonna be doing? For this and other reasons, a "plug 'n play" option that's more likely to meet those standards across the board makes more sense.

I like to approach these things like Heinlein's "Fair Witness": I don't know if "PSA is good", I only know that MY PSA stuff is good, thus far, at this time.

[Uncas47]

Oh no friend, not seen as argument at all, and you're 100% correct about said standard.

Hell, even if an agency HAS a good armorer, how much work is he gonna be doing? For this and other reasons, a "plug 'n play" option that's more likely to meet those standards across the board makes more sense.

I like to approach these things like Heinlein's "Fair Witness": I don't know if "PSA is good", I only know that MY PSA stuff is good, thus far, at this time.

More truth, more witness, more honesty, we are fortunate!!

[AndyLate]

I went back and re-read the OP. I agree that PSA has improved since 4 or 5 years ago, but Steyr honestly nailed it - they are hobby guns.

My safe currently holds 4 (4!) PSA ARs, all 16" Freedom line nitride, 2 midlengths and 2 carbine gas. One I bought lightly used, 2 were assembled from kits, and one was a daily deal upper mated to a daily deal lower. 2 do not see much range time at all. 3 have PSA enhanced milspec triggers, 1 has a LaRue single stage.

3 have FSBs and Magpul MBUS rears and all 3 zeroed at 50 y/m with reasonable adjustment. One has PSA's MLOK rail and no sights. Upper and lower fit is acceptable, finish is generally good, and staking performed by PSA is acceptable. 3 have been trouble free at the range, but as noted 2 are rarely shot. All seem to be generously but not ridiculously gassed, judging from ejection and recoil.

The railed, carbine gassed, gun simply would not run reliably one day for the owner, my son. He came back from the range and we went over it thoroughly and did not find any problems. The gun has been fine since, so we don't know if the issue was paint, ammo, dirt, or what.

PSA parts that should always be replaced (IMHO): extractor springs, buffer (swap to H1 or H2), and action springs.

Sample of 4 guns, no huge problems but two are rarely shot and only one sees regular range time. I think that lower end ARs tend to be either lightly used or used hard, not a lot of in between.

Andy

P.S. I would be shooting the piss out of one midlength/FSB gun but time constraints and ammo/component costs have prevented it.

[pinzgauer]

I would, at minimum, rebuild the bolt with trusted parts,

Or just buy a kit with the PSA by microbest BCG

replace the carrier key screws, preferably with OCKS stacked with a MOACKS,

See above. But outside of Colt, LMT, BCM, or DD and a few others you should check any BCG for screws and staking.

confirm the barrel but had at least the minimum torque value, inspect & restake the castle nut if needed,

I've had other companies than PSA with under torqued barrel extensions, do you do this on all the others?

drop in an H buffer

Other than Colt and maybe BCM you have to do this on every other large manufacturer as well.

and replace the FCG with an ALG ACT, BCM PNT, or equal

Same deal, you going to do this on all the other manufacturers? PSA offers over a dozen different triggers/fcg from the big names.

I prefer ALG, but I've had service triggers that were quite good from other manufacturers

then put 1000 rounds down the tube before trusting a PSA for anything serious.

This is true for every manufacturer.

I hate coming across as a PSA defender but I think a lot of the comments people are making are disingenuous.

Like the thing about 7075 rifle buffer tubes. From my research only colt and Brownell offer 7705 tubes and both are out of stock.

I'd want one with 7075, but even FN seems to ship them with 6061.

Not that PSA at times has not shipped stuff with poor qc in the past.

I still recommend starting with the 6920 or LMT defender/bcm lower and build the upper you want.

But if you are knowledgeable in selective about what you bought PSA can offer a good value. But I wouldn't buy the $329 kits and expect the above, you'll have to spend a bit more.

[nigla]

Small sample size. I have a couple PSA premium heavy barrel 20” uppers and a couple premium heavy barrel 18”. They run 100% and group as well as my Colts. My experience is only with the premium uppers.

When building a lower I pick very specific parts and prefer SSA-E triggers.

Low speed, old stick in the mud. I can’t tolerate any firearm that does not run 100%.

[markm]

no matter how much you try to educate a customer and convince them to buy a Colt, SOLGW, BCM, etc., they're simply unwilling or unable to spend the extra money. Often they would accuse me of trying to upsell them because they thought I worked on commission, which I didn't.

That shit applies to everything from Guitars to Car Tires to Wine in a restaurant. If you have a cheap or middle ground option, people will buy it and feel good that they left spending a little less.

I don't know anything specific about PSA. But I do know that when you don't HAVE TO meet a TDP's materials, finish, etc.... You won't. Corners will be cut on things you can't SEE. I can't look at a bolt, barrel or RE and see that it's the correct material. So I buy from Colt or BCM where I know the shit isn't substandard materials or manufacturing.

[Slater]

Didn't PSA used to (or maybe still does) sell rifles/uppers with FN barrels?

[556Cliff]

That shit applies to everything from Guitars to Car Tires to Wine in a restaurant. If you have a cheap or middle ground option, people will buy it and feel good that they left spending a little less.

I don't know anything specific about PSA. But I do know that when you don't HAVE TO meet a TDP's materials, finish, etc.... You won't. Corners will be cut on things you can't SEE. I can't look at a bolt, barrel or RE and see that it's the correct material. So I buy from Colt or BCM where I know the shit isn't substandard materials or manufacturing.

Agree, looks can be deceiving as you said "can't look at a bolt, barrel or RE and see that it's the correct material". Most people that don't know any better will think if it looks the same it must be the same and that's a very bad assumption to make. I've thrown out and sent back a lot of parts over the years simply because I know what is and isn't crap a lot of times just on how a part looks or feels. Lot's of guys will just blindly assume most things they buy are good to go and are none the wiser. Even harder to know when parts look the same in every way in many cases. They could be good, but buying no name mystery meat parts at bargain bin prices is a good indication that they probably aren't.

Buying a first rifle from a quality name (Colt duh!) will at least give you something that you can compare other parts too so that you can at least sort out obvious garbage random parts that you might buy as you get more into these things.

[titsonritz]

Or just buy a kit with the PSA by microbest BCG

The OP was talking about a $230 upper, I paid $200 for mine. I doubt it is a microbes BCG. I bought it with the intent to make a cut-away so I don’t care, some day I’ll buy one of their $100 lowers and cut them up.

See above. But outside of Colt, LMT, BCM, or DD and a few others you should check any BCG for screws and staking.

I was less than impressed with the staking on DD BCGs, I watch Will Larson restake a couple in his classes. I don’t get too far into the weeds with ARs, mine are Colt, BCM, SOLGW and SIONICS, The best example of staking is SIONICS.

I've had other companies than PSA with under torqued barrel extensions, do you do this on all the others?

See above, I haven’t had an issue with any on mine from those manufacturers, I have replaced some of the barrel nuts to switch handguards and all have been solid. Under torqued barrel extensions typically have been on Nitrided barrels, for the most part I stick chrome line phosphate barrels, my SOLGW 18” SPR being the only exception.

Other than Colt and maybe BCM you have to do this on every other large manufacturer as well.

All my rifles mentioned above came with an H buffer.

Same deal, you going to do this on all the other manufacturers? PSA offers over a dozen different triggers/fcg from the big names.

Yes, most of my triggers are replaced with some form of Geissele. My “budget” trigger is the ACT (or similar) I keep a spare or two around to change out crappy millspec triggers if needed. One of my BCMs still has the original stock trigger which is pre-PNT and probably the best standard milspec spec trigger I’ve felt.

. I prefer ALG, but I've had service triggers that were quite good from other manufacturers

See about, I admit I’ve mostly spoiled myself here. Even my Colts were just ok, the only regular milspec trigger I have left it that BCM mentioned above.

.This is true for every manufacturer.

I’d have no problem trusting a Colt or BCM after a few mags for service just like a Glock…PSA, Bear Creek, Anderson, Del-Ton, Fox Trot Mike,etc not so much. I don’t buy those, my experience is from people bringing them to me to fix or seeing them choke in classes.

I hate coming across as a PSA defender but I think a lot of the comments people are making are disingenuous.

Like the thing about 7075 rifle buffer tubes. From my research only colt and Brownell offer 7705 tubes and both are out of stock.

I'd want one with 7075, but even FN seems to ship them with 6061.

Not that PSA at times has not shipped stuff with poor qc in the past.

I believe even the crappy AR companies are better than they were years ago, but I’m picky when it comes to my guns and stick with a select few or build my own from trusted quality components.

All the ARs I bought came with 7075 REs, that is a prerequisite in by book. Anymore I build using an A5 system, they have all been 7075 as well.

I still recommend starting with the 6920 or LMT defender/bcm lower and build the upper you want.

But if you are knowledgeable in selective about what you bought PSA can offer a good value. But I wouldn't buy the $329 kits and expect the above, you'll have to spend a bit more.

Again the OP was about a $230 uppper and $130 lower, not their “premium” line and IMO rather spending more money on a better PSA I’d rather save a little longer and get Colt OEM.

[Uncas47]

Colts TDP even has a height measurement for the displacement of staking on carrier key bolts, and their 7075 REs are hammer forged. Again there is a standard.