Primer showdown: WOLF vs. CCI #41

[Pappabear]

After we got that 80FPS boost I took it in the shorts for the CCI primers locally. Brutal. Have to average out cost per primer over all our Wolfs at $14.95/ thowy to feel better.

PB

[pinzgauer]

I use an upgraded aluminum Lee Auto prime, which gives you pretty good sensitivity when seating the primer.

If it seats with minimal pressure I mark the case and shoot it for plinking. But then discard afterwards.

I've never had primers fall out with this approach.

I forgot the name of it but supposedly there's a swager you can get that reworks the head of the case to tighten primer pockets. But it was pretty expensive and really didn't seem worth trying. But if you have unobtainium brass, that may be the path we have to go down.

With some Lapua being a dollar per case I've started giving my cases individual names and take care of them. :-)

In Grendel Lapua is small rifle primer and doesn't have near the issue of enlarging the primer pockets.

[markm]

If it seats with minimal pressure I mark the case and shoot it for plinking. But then discard afterwards.

I do the exact same thing with a sharpie.

I've never had primers fall out with this approach.

Powder lot changes are what kills me on blown primers. I used to almost never have issues with the above method. But lately it's been an annoying issue.

I forgot the name of it but supposedly there's a swager you can get that reworks the head of the case to tighten primer pockets. But it was pretty expensive and really didn't seem worth trying. But if you have unobtainium brass, that may be the path we have to go down.

Yeah... for 5.56 brass it's neither worth the time or cost.

In Grendel Lapua is small rifle primer and doesn't have near the issue of enlarging the primer pockets.

Yep. That's supposed to be the idea behind those.. in 6.5cm and 308 too. I think I roasted some 6.5cm FC small primer brass the other week though.... Again with hotter powder lot.

[triggerjerk]

I recently loaded 41s for the first time. I experienced several slightly protruding primers from lesser loads in workup (.3gr increments) thru max. Not really that flattened. Had written it off as over annealing some of the cases. Now I wonder. This was also 1st time loading aa2230. Other powders/primers I have worked up to the hottest listing to be found with flatter primers and even case head smears towards max end, but no protrusion. Yes, with same gomer annealing process. Still, I picked a hotter load with the 41s. We'll soon see what going from 85 to 95 degrees does....

[markm]

If you're not heating the shoulder/neck for a "long" time, and your oxidation iris is less than half way from the mouth, I doubt your annealing is causing issues.

Softening brass is a function of time and temp. I average around 4 seconds of flame time which wouldn't get anywhere near softening the case head.

[triggerjerk]

I agree, and will suggest temp can be evil as a function of distance from or position within the flame if spinning in a drill with no jig for uniform neck/flame relationship. Not an engineer, but will jabber about my first annealing attempt which was in 3006 for a 1903 Springfield set up for across the course. Fired headspace was significantly shorter than prefired. Had a brief conversation with Mic McPherson of Precision Shooting Mag. He said overannealed neck/shoulder. Got some 800 Tempolaq and prob solved. My wonder is did firing pin shove case forward and set over softened shoulder back before ignition/expansion and then case gripped walls before it expanded to length? If so, why didn't head separate? Anyway, this lot 556 was eyeball/count annealed (yep, 4 secs)......

And once upon a time I was too lazy to re-up on propane and tried mapp. Learned that if you simply get your cases out in the presence of mapp, you have ruined them long before heat gets to the base....

So, is it the 41s or my annealing.... Not gonna worry too much at this point as the blammo is surprisingly accurate, but we'll see what happens when the temperature goes up another 10-15 degrees outside.....

[tomme boy]

If you think you over annealed the case, size the case several times. Each time it will work the brass and make it harder. I neck size certain brass like this on purpose to gain a little neck tension over just using the ID for tension.

What ever you guys are doing with these blown primers you need to look at what you are doing. Also you may have tight chambers and a short throat. You are way over psi. If you are showing any signs of pressure you are already way over max for your gun.

[markm]

If you think you over annealed the case, size the case several times. Each time it will work the brass and make it harder. I neck size certain brass like this on purpose to gain a little neck tension over just using the ID for tension.

Over annealing can't be reversed. Once the zinc is cooked out of the brass, the case is ruined.

What ever you guys are doing with these blown primers you need to look at what you are doing. Also you may have tight chambers and a short throat. You are way over psi. If you are showing any signs of pressure you are already way over max for your gun.

It's obvious there's PSI spikes. These are known/old guns where popped primers are a recent issue.

[tomme boy]

Over annealing can't be reversed. Once the zinc is cooked out of the brass, the case is ruined.

Depends on how much it is heated. You would have to have the brass in a liquid state for a long time to cook it out. How do you think it is in the brass in the first place. Copper is brought to melting temp them the zinc is added. You will get a little loss of the zinc when smelting but the loss from annealing brass is about null.

[DG23]

Depends on how much it is heated. You would have to have the brass in a liquid state for a long time to cook it out. How do you think it is in the brass in the first place. Copper is brought to melting temp them the zinc is added. You will get a little loss of the zinc when smelting but the loss from annealing brass is about null.

His main point though would still be correct.

'Over annealing can't be reversed'

Yes you can try resizing the cases over and over to 'work harden' part of the brass but those dies are not doing jack to the base of the cases because they don't even make contact there. That brass is ruined and will remain ruined no matter what.

Agree with what you said about possible QC 'problems' as of late. Really seems to be lacking in lots of places now... Definitely seems as though 'pride in the workmanship' is becoming more and more rare currently.